Design to Print Integration
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 1:02:40 PM
Putting this here, because it's not really 'feedback' and doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.

If you haven't yet read about it, head here first:

https://forum.zazzle.com/news/big_news_introducing_adobes_free_design_to_print?m=1660932#1660932

I basically have one concern: Is this going to leave those of us who don't/won't use the current version of Adobe Creative Cloud at a disadvantage?

And if so, how serious vs. inconsequential is it likely to be?

ETA: Actually, I have another concern, though I highly doubt it would come to pass, so I hesitate to even bring it up. But since I'm great at giving myself and everyone else nightmares: Please tell me there won't come a day when customers use some version of the current design tools (no sell it button), and designers are forced to use this integration if they want to be able to create and sell products using Z's platform.

Pretty sure that won't happen, but you can always rely on me (your resident pessimist) to think about the worst case scenario.
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 1:16:07 PM
Personally speaking, I read that announcement with no small amount of (well, maybe I shouldn't use the word I really want to here.)

Let's just say it didn't excite me in a good way. I've never been a fan of PhotoShop, and being involved in software licensing (I wear many, many hats at my day job), I'm also no big fan of Adobe more generally speaking, or the trend they helped strengthen of companies moving their licensing to subscription models (less money up front, but it can add up to a lot more in the long run in if you have to stay current.) When they did that, it caused us no small amount of grief, for well over a year.

There's simply no way I'm going to buy PhotoShop, just so I can take advantage of this integration with Zazzle. I could afford it, but I know others can't.

Do most designers use Adobe products like PhotoShop (or Illustrator)? Is this going to be be what separates 'professionals' from 'hobbyists'? (It shouldn't be, in my view. An software application cannot substitute for talent and skill.)

I guess I'm raining all over something that both Zazzle and many designers here might genuinely have good reason to be excited about. Maybe it won't be give them a huge advantage, just convenience. On the other hand, convenience can equal advantage in some cases.

If you're someone excited about this announcement, no reason you shouldn't be happy about it.
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 2:46:51 PM
I actually think it could be pretty useful and would definitely try it out, but I only have an older version of Photoshop and not the new cloud version so I unfortunately can not and really don't have the money to upgrade right now.

I don't design in photoshop anyway since my tools of choice are paint and paper, but I do clean up images and cut them out and am trying to learn some digital skills.
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 2:47:20 PM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Maybe it won't be give them a huge advantage, just convenience. On the other hand, convenience can equal advantage in some cases.

If you're someone excited about this announcement, no reason you shouldn't be happy about it.


Since I use Photoshop (and Illustrator) I can assure you that it is simply convenience. It would be advantage if speed-to-MP was a meaningful factor in sales but it really isn't.

I will absolutely download it because it does cut out two steps I am already doing but it is not a design advantage.

Here are the two steps it cuts out:

1)I routinely do a screenshot of all new and existing templates, then crop them and remove the grey/white background so that all that remains are the red lines, blue lines and green dotted lines. Then I archive this template and use it to make sure critical design elements won't fall outside the lines. The leggings example they gave is a good one since the template is such an odd shape. This plug-in would remove that step....but only if new products are put in it simultaneous to being announced in Zazzle News. Otherwise I'd still have to do the screenshot step.

2)Adobe Illustrator files can be uploaded directly to Zazzle as-is but Photoshop files can't. It is necessary to save them as png's (or jpegs but I always use png). This removes that step as wellThe time savings is only about 5 minutes, but the other thing it saves is a bit of memory space since it removes the need to save every Photoshop file as a png also.


That is how it looks to me from the preview.
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 3:07:58 PM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Personally speaking, I read that announcement with no small amount of (well, maybe I shouldn't use the word I really want to here.)

Let's just say it didn't excite me in a good way. I've never been a fan of PhotoShop, and being involved in software licensing (I wear many, many hats at my day job), I'm also no big fan of Adobe more generally speaking, or the trend they helped strengthen of companies moving their licensing to subscription models (less money up front, but it can add up to a lot more in the long run in if you have to stay current.) When they did that, it caused us no small amount of grief, for well over a year.

There's simply no way I'm going to buy PhotoShop, just so I can take advantage of this integration with Zazzle. I could afford it, but I know others can't.

Do most designers use Adobe products like PhotoShop (or Illustrator)? Is this going to be be what separates 'professionals' from 'hobbyists'? (It shouldn't be, in my view. An software application cannot substitute for talent and skill.)

I guess I'm raining all over something that both Zazzle and many designers here might genuinely have good reason to be excited about. Maybe it won't be give them a huge advantage, just convenience. On the other hand, convenience can equal advantage in some cases.

If you're someone excited about this announcement, no reason you shouldn't be happy about it.



I don't foresee that happening but if it did, I would have to part ways with Z. I am not going to rent software from anybody. I might have bought a copy to use with it maybe if the price wasn't too high. But I'm not paying ongoing monthly fees just to design here.

I also agree with you that PS should have no bearing on professionalism vs amateurism. I have never used PS or Illustrator and maybe they are good but I doubt they are that much better than other design software.

Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 3:39:43 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I am not going to rent software from anybody. I might have bought a copy to use with it maybe if the price wasn't too high. But I'm not paying ongoing monthly fees just to design here.


This is how I feel
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 4:28:08 PM
·▽·


It does have a little the feel of "the cool kids on the private playground get to play with the cool toys while the other kids can not"

But it is something Adobe developed to sell their subscription model and that is just business. Yes, zazzle helps with the sell with their announcement, but their tool is still fully functional and aside from the real time preview in a pro raster image tool, the advantages are actually really minimal.

My designs are uploaded to various print on demand services, so I rarely design just for zazzle.

On zazzle I design very often modular and with modular designs the "cool tool on the private playground" doesn't help at all. It is actually contra productive for a modular design style.

So it isn't even that cool after all.

Stick out tongue
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 5:24:54 PM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Maybe it won't be give them a huge advantage, just convenience. On the other hand, convenience can equal advantage in some cases.

If you're someone excited about this announcement, no reason you shouldn't be happy about it.


Since I use Photoshop (and Illustrator) I can assure you that it is simply convenience. It would be advantage if speed-to-MP was a meaningful factor in sales but it really isn't.

I will absolutely download it because it does cut out two steps I am already doing but it is not a design advantage.

Here are the two steps it cuts out:

1)I routinely do a screenshot of all new and existing templates, then crop them and remove the grey/white background so that all that remains are the red lines, blue lines and green dotted lines. Then I archive this template and use it to make sure critical design elements won't fall outside the lines. The leggings example they gave is a good one since the template is such an odd shape. This plug-in would remove that step....but only if new products are put in it simultaneous to being announced in Zazzle News. Otherwise I'd still have to do the screenshot step.

2)Adobe Illustrator files can be uploaded directly to Zazzle as-is but Photoshop files can't. It is necessary to save them as png's (or jpegs but I always use png). This removes that step as wellThe time savings is only about 5 minutes, but the other thing it saves is a bit of memory space since it removes the need to save every Photoshop file as a png also.

That is how it looks to me from the preview.

Thanks for offering those insights, Susannah. It really is good to hear from someone who would use this, and what they think it really provides them - and doesn't.
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 6:48:52 PM
.My current version of Photoshop serves all my needs, and I suspect this is also true for a large number of the other designers who use PS.

Fuzzy, stop imagining future difficulties. They’ll either show up or they won’t and without any help from us. :-)
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2019 7:40:07 PM
Colorwash wrote:
Fuzzy, stop imagining future difficulties. They’ll either show up or they won’t and without any help from us. :-)

Oh, that I could turn it off! On the other hand, it's no small part of my day job, pointing out blind spots and heading off potential disasters. And thus why I read and critique any messages in the name of my department before they're sent.

I've no doubt they'll have mixed feelings when I retire.
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 8:14:54 AM
I've thought about this as an alternative to Zazzle's product designer since the newest version was obviously not designed for desktop users and makes me nuts every time I use it (make a change, click on preview, make a change, click on preview, ugh!), but paying a monthly subscription fee, low as it is, is still a bit of a turn off because I'm simply not spending much time here anymore while I work on other projects and add my designs to other venues.

I also wonder if they could've made this work with older versions of Photoshop but then I realize this is a great way for Adobe to make more money so of course it's only for the subscription service and can't really fault them for that.

Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 8:14:57 AM
Colorwash wrote:
.My current version of Photoshop serves all my needs, and I suspect this is also true for a large number of the other designers who use PS.


Yeah, I currently use PS6 but as of the last Apple ios system update I periodical get pop ups telling me things are about to change. I could be one update away from having my PS6 rendered useless.

But honestly, the Z design tool is really nothing to scoff for designing now. Especially with that color picker.

Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 8:35:15 AM
I suppose it's possible the plugin requires cloud services and that's why it wasn't designed for lower-down models. For those with CC,I'm sure it'll be great; for those of us without CC, we won't know what we're missing, and we'll be happy too.

I have version CS3 and it serves me well. I tried my son's version 6 but couldn't find anything in it that I'd use. LM, is there anything specific in it that you love and that wasn't in earlier versions? I ask because I believe I can still get hold of 6 (an honest version, of course).
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 9:10:21 AM
Colorwash wrote:
I suppose it's possible the plugin requires cloud services and that's why it wasn't designed for lower-down models. For those with CC,I'm sure it'll be great; for those of us without CC, we won't know what we're missing, and we'll be happy too.


They may use the preview function and print area do-dads directly from zazzle and not a copy within their cloud service and since they wired the desktop part with the cloud part pretty tight in their CC version, it most likely isn't easy to downgrade to any CS version. Besides adobe want subscribers so they ended the support for their CS version a long time ago and said so when they may that decision a long time ago.
.
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 10:15:07 AM
Adobe will never find a place in this particular hemisphere because of so many developers that were hurt when they went to the subscription service and refused to share the code needed for those developers to continue with developing their plugins etc. I wasn't one of them but know several that were.

Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 10:28:52 AM
Colorwash wrote:


I have version CS3 and it serves me well. I tried my son's version 6 but couldn't find anything in it that I'd use. LM, is there anything specific in it that you love and that wasn't in earlier versions? I ask because I believe I can still get hold of 6 (an honest version, of course).


You know before I got PS6 I was using the last version of Fireworks. Remember that Adobe software? Ancient history now. Sorry no help from me on this one.

Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 10:34:21 AM
Yes, I think it was in the Dark Ages that I used Fireworks. I have a vague memory of not liking it, but I don't remember why. Before Photoshop, I was using a simple thing from Adobe. I can't recall its name, but it was before they came out with Photoshop Elements.
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2019 11:18:26 AM
LM Gildersleeve wrote:
You know before I got PS6 I was using the last version of Fireworks. Remember that Adobe software? Ancient history now.

Yes - staff at the day job used it, back when it was still a Macromedia product, before the Adobe acquisition.
Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 2:54:58 PM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
I basically have one concern: Is this going to leave those of us who don't/won't use the current version of Adobe Creative Cloud at a disadvantage?

And if so, how serious vs. inconsequential is it likely to be?

ETA: Actually, I have another concern, though I highly doubt it would come to pass, so I hesitate to even bring it up. But since I'm great at giving myself and everyone else nightmares: Please tell me there won't come a day when customers use some version of the current design tools (no sell it button), and designers are forced to use this integration if they want to be able to create and sell products using Z's platform.

Pretty sure that won't happen, but you can always rely on me (your resident pessimist) to think about the worst case scenario.


I don't foresee this as being a disadvantage for those of us who don't use Adobe CC. I think it's just set up as a convenience for those who do. And, hopefully, your worst-case scenario won't come to pass.

Personally, I don't like the fact that Adobe charges a subscription fee to use their software platform now. It all boils down to one thing...greed.
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 9:38:05 AM
Colorwash wrote:
I suppose it's possible the plugin requires cloud services and that's why it wasn't designed for lower-down models.

You might be onto something there. The new version of Acrobat incorporates Adobe's Document Cloud service in a major way. Switching over was a big pain in the neck for us at the day job, because we don't want our sensitive data to wind up in their cloud. So we had to find a way to disable as much of it as we could, to keep people from putting things in the cloud without even realizing they were doing so. (It's sometimes that seamless.)

'Sharing' and 'collaboration' are big these days, thanks to advances in technology. There's a big push in that direction from outside my unit at the day job, and we have to keep telling them that we can't participate, because of the data we handle.
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 9:42:16 AM
Karen Coffelt wrote:
It all boils down to one thing...greed.

Or arguably, survival. Not that I want to advocate on their behalf, but it seems software companies have realized that a lot of people won't upgrade to newer versions, which leaves them without a sustainable source of revenue, and not enough return on investment for product development.
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 9:53:21 AM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Colorwash wrote:
I suppose it's possible the plugin requires cloud services and that's why it wasn't designed for lower-down models.

You might be onto something there. The new version of Acrobat incorporates Adobe's Document Cloud service in a major way. Switching over was a big pain in the neck for us at the day job, because we don't want our sensitive data to wind up in their cloud. So we had to find a way to disable as much of it as we could, to keep people from putting things in the cloud without even realizing they were doing so. (It's sometimes that seamless.)

'Sharing' and 'collaboration' are big these days, thanks to advances in technology. There's a big push in that direction from outside my unit at the day job, and we have to keep telling them that we can't participate, because of the data we handle.



That probably is it. It requires a 3 way sharing of data between the designer, Zazzle and Adobe. Now that I have it, I was disappointed to see that the most recent templates are not in it (so I still have to do screenshots of new stuff). It could be that Zazzle handed Adobe their template catalogue several months back and it was developed with just those templates. But the template catalogue is quite dynamic and must be constantly updated to delete discontinued products and add new ones so Zazzle needs to keep sharing with Adobe's server too. It's a pretty sharing-intensive plugin.
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