blender 2 pages: [1] 2
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:17:40 AM
I've decided to try 3D art and so downloaded blender because it is free rather than a thousand dollars. The catch is that the learning curve looks Mt. Everest steep. I have Illustrator and Photoshop and have used the 3D option in both but they are both very limited, good for extruding text so it pops or making spheres, cubes, wine glasses and other objects that have radial symmetry. So I am familiar with such things as lighting and wrapping textures around a surface but that's about it.

Blender is next level. It's versatility is apparently light years beyond what Adobe offers in Photoshop and Illustrator. But the more powerful and versatile a program is, the more things there are to learn. Especially when it's open source and hasn't been subject to market forces towards user friendliness. Luckily youtube is bristling with tutorial videos. Hundreds of them.


My question is, does anybody else here use blender? And if so, how long did you have to invest in tutorial videos and practice, practice, practice before you could make something worthy of putting on Zazzle? Did you come to blender as a complete newbie to 3D or did you have previous experience with simpler 3D functions such as found in Photoshop? And did that previous experience help?


Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:32:14 AM
I downloaded it once and could not get the hang of it, even following a step by step tutorial. I knew I would never be able to use it on my own. The only thing I could see that would make it useful was in a computer game where a person needed to be able to turn an object to see another side. For my purpose; shading and shadows accomplish the purpose of making an element appear 3-D
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:38:08 AM
Dang! Thanks for chiming in. It does look pretty convoluted.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:41:16 AM
·▽·


I have it on my hard drive for years but non of the tutorials, that I followed every once in while sticks and leaves me with working knowledge. But then recreating something from a youTube tutorial four or five times a year can't be considered any kind of serious attempt to gain a working knowledge of a complex program.

The tutorial are easy enough to follow and if you put them on a decent schedule you should be able to create something within a few weeks.

As always start with easy stuff like cubes and spheres and expand from there.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:50:01 AM
·▽·


I just glanced into the beginners blender sculpting tutorial, that recently was in my timeline and the tutorial is easy enough to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3XtAFUWNuk

I don't know, if you have seen that one.

Grin


Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 6:14:13 AM
Thank you. Bookmarked. I need a place to begin and am committed to putting in the necessary tutorial time. It looks like that guy has a youtube channel devoted to blender tutorials.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 6:32:42 AM
Don't know Blender but used to create 3D renderings using different dedicated software from less to more complex in the past, starting from mid 90. My favorite was Bryce 3D (pretty cheap or even free nowadays on Daz3D), that is pretty intuitive and versatile, allowing simple renders of simple objects as well as complex objects and realistic scenes. Nowadays most people use Autodesk's 3ds Max, what is probably THE professional and universal but also most complex 3D Software out there, DAZ Studio (see daz3d.com), what is free (but you pay for models), in combination with Poser, THE 3D software for body renders (people, animals, fantasy creatures). A very popular one for realistic landscape rendering is Vue d'Esprit, but it can become expensive, depending on the version and optional tools you buy.

No idea how Blender simplifies your life with predone models, textures and whatever you need, and how simple to use the interface is. If it's hardcore, be prepared for a steep (and I mean STEEP) learning curve, if you're not experienced. If it's easy to use, it will be pretty basic and you won't really be able to do truly cool stuff, especially not at high quality.

Besides skill and good software you'll also need (many, MANY) hours and hours your (hopefully strong and fast and real) computer will be completely untouchable while rendering your works you created in hours (or days) of hard work. Complex scene renderings at high resolution (large image pixel sizes) may even take up to days on top notch PCs.

My personal thoughts: I'm pretty well experienced and didn't touch any 3D rendering software for ages now, with some rare exceptions. Simply not worth the time and efforts needed to create good stuff, unless you're a hardcore, truly experienced 3D artist using and combining various dedicated 3D software (depending on what you create) plus Photoshop for postworking. I also don't think there is a real marketplace for less sophisticated renders (e.g. the famous spheres reflecting on a mirrored check board) printed on merch anymore. The story changes when it comes to true Fantasy and 3D Art, but that's something that is already taken by highly skilled artists. Have a look on Deviantart, and you'll see, what I mean.

The moral of this story: I personally don't recommend it, if you don't bring at least some experience and knowledge, unless you are willing to invest a huge amount of time to learn something that even with knowledge takes a lot of time and skill to master and to produce appealing works that aren't basic pre-modeled cookie-cutter figurines (what you see often). You're better off maximizing your skills in let's say Photoshop and Illustrator (or Corel Draw + Photopaint, or even Gimp), this will give you more bucks in return for your time and efforts. Just my 2c, and I'm talking of doing it seriously, of course.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:01:36 AM
Whoo boy. I am clearly going to need oxygen tanks and youtube Sherpas for this climb if I'm willing to accept the challenge. Blessedly I will be coming into some time since I am retiring in a few months. Co-workers say, "Congratulations, but what will you do with yourself? Won't you be bored?" Some people take up gardening or knitting. It looks like blender is a "go hard or go home" situation so hopefully I'm up to the challenge of making it a post-retirement hobby.

My computer has 8GB RAM which hopefully will be enough for what I plan to do- animals, flowers, Halloween pumpkins, Christmas trees. Illustrator's 3D topped out at Christmas ornaments (spheres with festive images wrapped around them) but they did sell.

Blender doesn't come with much built in. Just a few shapes which are clearly meant to be the starting material from which you make your creation. They give you the block of marble but you have to carve the statue. There is no grab-n-go. This of course makes it very, very hard.

Retirement should help with the time investment aspect. Clearly trying to shoehorn this around a typical workday wouldn't be that great.

Hope I haven't bit off more than I can chew.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:31:28 AM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
Whoo boy. I am clearly going to need oxygen tanks and youtube Sherpas for this climb if I'm willing to accept the challenge. Blessedly I will be coming into some time since I am retiring in a few months. Co-workers say, "Congratulations, but what will you do with yourself? Won't you be bored?" Some people take up gardening or knitting. It looks like blender is a "go hard or go home" situation so hopefully I'm up to the challenge of making it a post-retirement hobby.

My computer has 8GB RAM which hopefully will be enough for what I plan to do- animals, flowers, Halloween pumpkins, Christmas trees. Illustrator's 3D topped out at Christmas ornaments (spheres with festive images wrapped around them) but they did sell.

Blender doesn't come with much built in. Just a few shapes which are clearly meant to be the starting material from which you make your creation. They give you the block of marble but you have to carve the statue. There is no grab-n-go. This of course makes it very, very hard.

Retirement should help with the time investment aspect. Clearly trying to shoehorn this around a typical workday wouldn't be that great.

Hope I haven't bit off more than I can chew.


You may want to try out Bryce 3D. The latest version 7 is available at 20 bucks on daz3d.com. Already an aged software, but still works fine and gives great results at the size you want (you can easily go over 10-20k pixels). It will also work fine on your PC, I'm sure. Nice for landscape and object renderings, comes with a ton of materials and textures and presets, intuitive and pretty easy to use. Less suited for manual grid-modeling or organic stuff like animals or people. For the latter you will need Poser anyway. Still some learning needed, but not as steep as more complex 3D software. I can personally recommend it. You may also use it to enter the 3D rendering world with less pain but being able to get nice results from the start. Besides Bryce you may want to check out DAZ Studio, and of course Poser, if you would love to create animals and such.

Check out daz3d.com just to have a look. here's the link about Bryce 7, with purchasing button plus all detailed info about the software:

https://www.daz3d.com/bryce-7-pro

P.S. 3D rendering needs more CPU power than RAM.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:44:28 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:

No idea how Blender simplifies your life with predone models, textures and whatever you need, and how simple to use the interface is. If it's hardcore, be prepared for a steep (and I mean STEEP) learning curve, if you're not experienced. If it's easy to use, it will be pretty basic and you won't really be able to do truly cool stuff, especially not at high quality.


Pixa Star type 3D block buster have been produced in blender. Real movies distributed to movie theaters world wide.

Blender is a professional tool. For expert working knowledge you will need a lot of time, but you can produce something on your own within 20 minutes, too.

I did with the help of a youTube tutorial in the past, though it took two attempts to make it happen.


After watching the above tutorial, I trust myself to create a snail, even with windows and chimneys in the snail house. I will need a second tutorial to give my snail some texture, but is would be a 3D object which I could export. I'd demonstrate but currently I'm too busy.

Grin

Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:54:22 AM
Hi Susannah.

I love blender although I'm still a novice. I think the secret is start small and work up to bigger models. I've yet to jump in to 2.8 version (still using 2.79b)

I've been using it off and on for about 8 years (ish) and I still have loads to learn.

For tutorials, like vivendulies said, youtube is your friend. I followed tutor4u's Blender Tutorial: Ukulele series and managed to make a fine ukulele. I like his style.

I recommend to watch any tutorial at least twice all the way through before you have a go.

When you are ready to have a go, watch on your phone with headphones (or on a tablet) while following along on your computer. Saves you tabbing out and getting lost along the way.

I keep meaning to follow this beginners series by Grant Abbitt which introduces you to 2.8
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn3ukorJv4vs_eSJUQPxBRaDS8PrVmIri

Good luck and jump on in there! The blender community is great and very helpful. We were all beginners once (and I still am)

Daz3D, as PetsDreamlands quoted, is also free software and I know a lot of book cover designers render their covers using that. They buy their 3d assets from the store mostly.

The main thing is to have fun and don't get disheartened. Like others have said, there's a lot to learn but if you have the time, I say do it.

Roses



Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:05:10 AM
vivendulies wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:

No idea how Blender simplifies your life with predone models, textures and whatever you need, and how simple to use the interface is. If it's hardcore, be prepared for a steep (and I mean STEEP) learning curve, if you're not experienced. If it's easy to use, it will be pretty basic and you won't really be able to do truly cool stuff, especially not at high quality.


Pixa Star type 3D block buster have been produced in blender. Real movies distributed to movie theaters world wide.

Blender is a professional tool. For expert working knowledge you will need a lot of time, but you can produce something on your own within 20 minutes, too.

I did with the help of a youTube tutorial in the past, though it took two attempts to make it happen.


After watching the above tutorial, I trust myself to create a snail, even with windows and chimneys in the snail house. I will need a second tutorial to give my snail some texture, but is would be a 3D object which I could export. I'd demonstrate but currently I'm too busy.

Grin


What a coincidence. Was just wondering and checked some info about Blender. I've read it's best suited for object modeling. Thinking about it, I guess I'll give it a try for - surprise surprise - creating mockups of selected stuff. Like blankets on couches, insitu views of folded scarves and other things that need morphing. Would still be an extra step, but if all I have to do (after creating the model) is changing the texture of the object with my design, and this at low size (not much render time needed), it would be perfect and worth the extra work. Would love to have lovely looking insitu scarves, duvets, blankets and such with the related designs on them. Idea

Thanks, Susannah, for bringing this up! Roses
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:13:22 AM
Thanks everybody for the links. Clearly I have a lot to do.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:18:53 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:

No idea how Blender simplifies your life with predone models, textures and whatever you need, and how simple to use the interface is. If it's hardcore, be prepared for a steep (and I mean STEEP) learning curve, if you're not experienced. If it's easy to use, it will be pretty basic and you won't really be able to do truly cool stuff, especially not at high quality.


Pixa Star type 3D block buster have been produced in blender. Real movies distributed to movie theaters world wide.

Blender is a professional tool. For expert working knowledge you will need a lot of time, but you can produce something on your own within 20 minutes, too.

I did with the help of a youTube tutorial in the past, though it took two attempts to make it happen.


After watching the above tutorial, I trust myself to create a snail, even with windows and chimneys in the snail house. I will need a second tutorial to give my snail some texture, but is would be a 3D object which I could export. I'd demonstrate but currently I'm too busy.

Grin


What a coincidence. Was just wondering and checked some info about Blender. I've read it's best suited for object modeling. Thinking about it, I guess I'll give it a try for - surprise surprise - creating mockups of selected stuff. Like blankets on couches, insitu views of folded scarves and other things that need morphing. Would still be an extra step, but if all I have to do (after creating the model) is changing the texture of the object with my design, and this at low size (not much render time needed), it would be perfect and worth the extra work. Would love to have lovely looking insitu scarves, duvets, blankets and such with the related designs on them. Idea

Thanks, Susannah, for bringing this up! Roses


You so should!

I made a mockup of a duvet/pillows in blender for a fellow designer once-



I know IKEA uses 3d mockups for their catalogue. Can't wait for the day zazzle uses them too!


oh and as a ps to PetsDreamlands - daz3d uses dforce now - so you could easily drape towels/duvets/blankets there too
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:28:59 AM
mothersdaisy wrote:

You so should!

I made a mockup of a duvet/pillows in blender for a fellow designer once-



I know IKEA uses 3d mockups for their catalogue. Can't wait for the day zazzle uses them too!

This is your own mockup done with Blender? If so, truly impressed, WOW! Great job!

Already thought to use a 3D software for that, but was a bit reluctant and didn't know Blender before. And what's best, it doesn't seem to be over-complex (what is important, cuz I've also to work on website, then on ads and promos, plus on the designs themselves, and Xmas is coming quickly).

So happy for that whole post, solved also my mockup question. Thanks all, gals, that was very informative and helpful. Love that forum! Love
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:33:28 AM
Susannah, forget all what I wrote before (you know, all that scary complexity and time waste stuff). Go ahead, I'll definitely join the party Grin
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:35:52 AM
Ok. Strapping on oxygen tanks. Going to the youtube Sherpas many have linked above. I'm going in.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:25:14 AM
Because Blender is open source, it's always seemed a bit glitchy to me. Things are alway changing.

I use DAZ and Photoshop for almost everything. For over 10 years now. (I may just be set in my ways LOL).

Bryce requires A LOT of cpu, so be prepared for that if you choose that direction. I never cared for Poser's over complicated controls, but I do admit that the renders are way too close to realistic.

I like the more fantasy based renders that I do with DAZ.


Good luck though. Hopefully it works out better for you.

~Tabz
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:52:26 AM
Tabz Jones wrote:
Because Blender is open source, it's always seemed a bit glitchy to me. Things are alway changing.

I use DAZ and Photoshop for almost everything. For over 10 years now. (I may just be set in my ways LOL).

Bryce requires A LOT of cpu, so be prepared for that if you choose that direction. I never cared for Poser's over complicated controls, but I do admit that the renders are way too close to realistic.

I like the more fantasy based renders that I do with DAZ.


Good luck though. Hopefully it works out better for you.

~Tabz

always wanted to try DAZ, even started a few times, but simply didn't find the time and the mental strength to immerse myself into one more complex software (and doing it professionally). Way too much stuff in my head from Corel (as opposed to Adobe) to the whole web scripting stuff from HTML and CSS to ASP and JS, not to mention the countless rest I dealt with in my professional career, which is still occupying my brain. But yes, it's a great software. Can become pretty expensive, though, having to buy all the different models - they're not really low priced. Agree on Bryce's CPU usage, but it was a great and innovative 3D software when it came out. Provided me a nice living back in the mid-late 90s, together with Corel Draw. Too bad they missed the chance to rule the market and got overtaken by other brands. Will give Blender a try just to create mockups, won't go 3D for POD stuff, though. Way too late and can't compete with the experience of all the great artists out there. You simply can't be Jack of really all trades and I'm already covering enough.

That said, I absolutely love your design, looks great and way more realistic (but still with that surreal Fantasy touch) than most renders I've seen around. Good amount of postworking, I assume. Side note: have you to use at least PG-13 rating for such "sexy" designs here on Z?
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 10:22:57 AM
mothersdaisy wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:

No idea how Blender simplifies your life with predone models, textures and whatever you need, and how simple to use the interface is. If it's hardcore, be prepared for a steep (and I mean STEEP) learning curve, if you're not experienced. If it's easy to use, it will be pretty basic and you won't really be able to do truly cool stuff, especially not at high quality.


Pixa Star type 3D block buster have been produced in blender. Real movies distributed to movie theaters world wide.

Blender is a professional tool. For expert working knowledge you will need a lot of time, but you can produce something on your own within 20 minutes, too.

I did with the help of a youTube tutorial in the past, though it took two attempts to make it happen.


After watching the above tutorial, I trust myself to create a snail, even with windows and chimneys in the snail house. I will need a second tutorial to give my snail some texture, but is would be a 3D object which I could export. I'd demonstrate but currently I'm too busy.

Grin


What a coincidence. Was just wondering and checked some info about Blender. I've read it's best suited for object modeling. Thinking about it, I guess I'll give it a try for - surprise surprise - creating mockups of selected stuff. Like blankets on couches, insitu views of folded scarves and other things that need morphing. Would still be an extra step, but if all I have to do (after creating the model) is changing the texture of the object with my design, and this at low size (not much render time needed), it would be perfect and worth the extra work. Would love to have lovely looking insitu scarves, duvets, blankets and such with the related designs on them. Idea

Thanks, Susannah, for bringing this up! Roses


You so should!

I made a mockup of a duvet/pillows in blender for a fellow designer once-



I know IKEA uses 3d mockups for their catalogue. Can't wait for the day zazzle uses them too!


oh and as a ps to PetsDreamlands - daz3d uses dforce now - so you could easily drape towels/duvets/blankets there too


Aha! so that is where she got those amazing mockups... I almost asked her once (assuming I have the correct designer in mind) Happy

nice job! Zazzle could use some like this!
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 11:16:55 AM
Thanks Shelli Love I did a couple for her.

daz3d has dogs too @Petsdreamlands - I did this in daz3d



I modeled the christmas stockings, dog bed and the mason jar. The fireplace was a freebie from daz

Roses
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 1:51:37 PM
My husband uses Blender all the time and even teachers it. He recommends looking at Blender Cookie and Blender Guru. (He says Blender Guru is the better of the two.)
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 4:44:32 PM
Been playing with blender on and off since 2008. Buts a case of world building, you willy can't be a jack of all trades. You need to pick one primary and a few secondary skill.

Made a few things for cgtrader (4 models), did get one sell. Not naming names but you can figure out a rough estimate on how much a person has made by reputation score. A few people (maybe group) has made 10's of thousands on that platform. But they have thousands of hours spent on making the models.

Hint make sure you close of the tubes with squires or rectangle. Do not mix triangles and squired. Blender by default will make a radio grid with triangles. That alone reducers the chance of a sell by 90%. I did alot of digging back November 2018.

Had a few issue with a growth plan. Between CGtrader not having category and blender planned roll out of the new version. I stuck will 2d for this year.

As for learning curve that depends on the person, tutorials, and the end goal. But I've abandon any hopes of getting and thing done that relies on other people. My brother has been in garage bands for years, and most don't last for a few month. And most of them were just 4 or 5 members.

As for blender you would need.
5-10 models
5-10 textures
1-3 sound guys
1 or 2 rigger
And the list goes on if you wanted a short film. Can blender do it, yes. Can you find a team that is dedicated and skilled enough, thats the hard part. Between CGtrader and Blendermarket, I believe we will see more short indy films.

But for now I'm out. Might add a few basic assets to stay in practice.

https://youtu.be/HWBxwziClCI

Just dont have the time to do everything. Modeling, texture, rig, camera, find music and bla bla that 30 sec clip took 12 hours of my time. Granted I could probably reduce the time in half if I focused on nothing but blender over the course of 3 or 4 months.

Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 5:55:01 PM
haven´t tried Blender, did some classes in 3ds max before, think they are somewhat similar with the polygon modeling. If you want to do environment with hard surfaces I think 3ds max or Blender is perfect. If you want to do environments with trees and stuff, you´ll probably need some extra addon. (Or else it will take ages)

Depending on what you like to do, I prefer zbrush which is perfect for modeling more organic shapes, just like clay.

Although you can achieve both polygon modeling in both zbrush and 3ds max.

I would guess if you put the hours in, you´d be fluent within a year. You will probably create some decent looking models in 3 months. That is my guess.

This was my first model in zbrush.

Good luck and have fun!

Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 6:38:34 PM
Susannah, I have never tried any 3D software and don't have the time to delve into it (still a long way from mastering GIMP and Inkscape, mostly due to lack of time), although back in the early 2000s I had wanted to get into a graphic design school for computer animation. never did because of a bankruptcy, and could not afford to pay out of pocket. Anyhow, from what people are saying here, it seems like you may have to have a separate computer dedicated to this if it can take hours to days to render your creations, as you might want to be able to work on other things online or off while waiting, or at least I would, if it were me. Good luck!
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 6:47:22 PM
Didn't know what I'd get when I clicked on this thread but this is very interesting. I love threads like this.

Skillshare is another good resource, but definitely Youtube is great. So many FREE tutorials on all sorts of software.
Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:04:02 PM
Karen Coffelt wrote:
Susannah, I have never tried any 3D software and don't have the time to delve into it (still a long way from mastering GIMP and Inkscape, mostly due to lack of time), although back in the early 2000s I had wanted to get into a graphic design school for computer animation. never did because of a bankruptcy, and could not afford to pay out of pocket. Anyhow, from what people are saying here, it seems like you may have to have a separate computer dedicated to this if it can take hours to days to render your creations, as you might want to be able to work on other things online or off while waiting, or at least I would, if it were me. Good luck!


Karen, Gimp has a basic 3d function in the mapping.

When you map an image to a sphere it creates a 3d model of it. I am not saying it compares to Blender and I frankly never even thought about 3d art until I read this thread. But it does make me wonder what else Gimp can do that we just don't know about yet.

Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 11:54:36 AM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Karen Coffelt wrote:
Susannah, I have never tried any 3D software and don't have the time to delve into it (still a long way from mastering GIMP and Inkscape, mostly due to lack of time), although back in the early 2000s I had wanted to get into a graphic design school for computer animation. never did because of a bankruptcy, and could not afford to pay out of pocket. Anyhow, from what people are saying here, it seems like you may have to have a separate computer dedicated to this if it can take hours to days to render your creations, as you might want to be able to work on other things online or off while waiting, or at least I would, if it were me. Good luck!


Karen, Gimp has a basic 3d function in the mapping.

When you map an image to a sphere it creates a 3d model of it. I am not saying it compares to Blender and I frankly never even thought about 3d art until I read this thread. But it does make me wonder what else Gimp can do that we just don't know about yet.



Shelli, that's new to me, although they say you learn something new every day. Not that I will have time to play with that feature.Laughing
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 2:40:09 PM
Karen Coffelt wrote:
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Karen Coffelt wrote:
Susannah, I have never tried any 3D software and don't have the time to delve into it (still a long way from mastering GIMP and Inkscape, mostly due to lack of time), although back in the early 2000s I had wanted to get into a graphic design school for computer animation. never did because of a bankruptcy, and could not afford to pay out of pocket. Anyhow, from what people are saying here, it seems like you may have to have a separate computer dedicated to this if it can take hours to days to render your creations, as you might want to be able to work on other things online or off while waiting, or at least I would, if it were me. Good luck!


Karen, Gimp has a basic 3d function in the mapping.

When you map an image to a sphere it creates a 3d model of it. I am not saying it compares to Blender and I frankly never even thought about 3d art until I read this thread. But it does make me wonder what else Gimp can do that we just don't know about yet.



Shelli, that's new to me, although they say you learn something new every day. Not that I will have time to play with that feature.Laughing


me either, at least not in the near future...
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2019 4:28:54 PM
I hear you. I wish Zazzle would make it so we can just give someone a like or whatever instead of having to directly reply to someone's comment. I know, priorities.Laughing
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