6.1.5.3 of User Agreement 2 pages: [1] 2
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 7:55:54 PM
Their all-caps not mine. According to RoyK's Redlines document, this was not in the last version pubished Nov 14th but it is there tonight 11-20.

Quote:

6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 8:15:25 PM
Col's Creations© wrote:
Their all-caps not mine. According to RoyK's Redlines document, this was not in the last version pubished Nov 14th but it is there tonight 11-20.

Quote:

6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.

There are 334 replies now in the thread, so it's easy to miss something... Posted about that language HERE and then added on HERE.

The provision immediately above that one protects Collaborators' content, and I would like to see ours protected, right there in section 6, also and not just "Public Products" (which is a compilation; not necessarily the individual components in it). There is other language that is protective here and there, as well, but still... the terms are leaky. Doesn't look like Z thinks it's an issue or that we deserve answers to our questions before they go into effect though.

Sad state of affairs.
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 9:33:59 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
There are 334 replies now in the thread, so it's easy to miss something...

True that. I just read the two posts you referenced but am not seeing the issue you are seeing which seems to be:
RoyK_is_a_She on Nov 16 wrote:
A "Published Product" is a completed design, as I read 1.2. "Content" is anything we upload. Many of us use assets individually to create design compilations. Adding the red language would protect Designers' assets and compilations -
RoyK_is_a_She on Nov 20 wrote:
... The provision immediately above that one protects Collaborators' content, and I would like to see ours protected, right there in section 6, also and not just "Public Products" (which is a compilation; not necessarily the individual components in it).

Here's what 1.2 says tonight Nov 20:
Quote:
1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content

That covers absolutely anything we add to the site for any use by others and also specifically includes both "designs" and "elements" in the list.
And then it goes on to read:
Quote:
If your Content is “Posted for Sale,” “Posted for Download,” or “Posted for Use” (collectively, "Public Products") as a design for Products available to other visitors to the Site,

Which not only doubles-down on covering absolutely everything, it tells us what they mean by "Public Products" (everything!) - go backwards:
Public Products = anything Posted for Sale/Use/Download
Posted for Sale/Use/Download = made up of Content
Content = Everything
and thus
Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.

leaves no room for doubt in my mind that everything we submit for public use regardless of whether we consider it a finished design or just a piece of one, is protected.

I did not mean to start another long thread theorizing the terms; I did not know that the change of 6.1.5.3 was not new and I thought it would make people happy tonight.
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 10:53:53 PM
Col's Creations© wrote:
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
There are 334 replies now in the thread, so it's easy to miss something...

True that. I just read the two posts you referenced but am not seeing the issue you are seeing which seems to be:
RoyK_is_a_She on Nov 16 wrote:
A "Published Product" is a completed design, as I read 1.2. "Content" is anything we upload. Many of us use assets individually to create design compilations. Adding the red language would protect Designers' assets and compilations -
RoyK_is_a_She on Nov 20 wrote:
... The provision immediately above that one protects Collaborators' content, and I would like to see ours protected, right there in section 6, also and not just "Public Products" (which is a compilation; not necessarily the individual components in it).

Here's what 1.2 says tonight Nov 20:
Quote:
1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content

That covers absolutely anything we add to the site for any use by others and also specifically includes both "designs" and "elements" in the list.
And then it goes on to read:
Quote:
If your Content is “Posted for Sale,” “Posted for Download,” or “Posted for Use” (collectively, "Public Products") as a design for Products available to other visitors to the Site,

Which not only doubles-down on covering absolutely everything, it tells us what they mean by "Public Products" (everything!) - go backwards:
Public Products = anything Posted for Sale/Use/Download
Posted for Sale/Use/Download = made up of Content
Content = Everything
and thus
Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.

leaves no room for doubt in my mind that everything we submit for public use regardless of whether we consider it a finished design or just a piece of one, is protected.

I did not mean to start another long thread theorizing the terms; I did not know that the change of 6.1.5.3 was not new and I thought it would make people happy tonight.


Thank you for posting this Col's. I'll read it over again in the morning, getting late for me but I am ready for some happy news. Roses
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:12:01 AM
Col's Creations© wrote:

Quote:
1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content

That covers absolutely anything we add to the site for any use by others and also specifically includes both "designs" and "elements" in the list.

That's new/updated, de facto limiting now the use of any content to Zazzle's site. What automatically excludes the external use, including the "legalized" theft/rip-off of designs in any way and its sale on other PODs, Amazon and wherever else.

That's practically what I suggested, but in other words and embedded differently. With this change and the other ones which were already done, there is really nothing anymore that may cause a headache.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:31:32 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Col's Creations© wrote:

Quote:
1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content

That covers absolutely anything we add to the site for any use by others and also specifically includes both "designs" and "elements" in the list.

That's new/updated, de facto limiting now the use of any content to Zazzle's site. What automatically excludes the external use, including the "legalized" theft/rip-off of designs in any way and its sale on other PODs, Amazon and wherever else.

That's practically what I suggested, but in other words and embedded differently. With this change and the other ones which were already done, there is really nothing anymore that may cause a headache.


I hardly believe that anyone who uses this create tool reads and / or sticks to it.
The headaches are caused by people being able to do it.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:36:57 AM
"I hardly believe that anyone who uses this create tool reads and / or sticks to it" @GabiwArt

Exactly, just ask a potential thief "remember, don't do that".
And then you see your art everywhere on internet.
Then people say, hey it's not yours.
How can you be an author when it's EVERYWHERE!
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 3:51:43 AM
GabiwArt wrote:

I hardly believe that anyone who uses this create tool reads and / or sticks to it.
The headaches are caused by people being able to do it.

The issue that caused the whole havoc were the terms that had some gaps which could've been exploited for possible successful counterclaims from design thieves. These terms are now more clear and limiting. They don't prevent anyone to steal your design and use it elsewhere, but they clearly state now that you aren't allowed to do it. So if you catch such a design thief on Amazon, you can send a copyright claim and enforce the removal of the infringing product, without the thief being able to successfully counter with interpretable Zazzle terms. That's it.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 4:00:58 AM
"if you catch such a design thief on Amazon" @PetsDreamlands

Well, go for it, did you try? You might want to read some "success stories" on that subject. A lot of those on internet. Also it won't go to Amazon only, it gonna be everywhere.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 4:18:48 AM
Plrang Art wrote:
"if you catch such a design thief on Amazon" @PetsDreamlands

Well, go for it, did you try? You might want to read some "success stories" on that subject. A lot of those on internet. Also it won't go to Amazon only, it gonna be everywhere.

You can't blame Zazzle for that. It's a general problem on the web, not a Zazzle exclusivity. And btw, it's not limited to the web, nor it is a modern invention. I took Amazon as an example, of course it's not limited to their store.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 4:56:48 AM
GabiwArt wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Col's Creations© wrote:

Quote:
1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content

That covers absolutely anything we add to the site for any use by others and also specifically includes both "designs" and "elements" in the list.

That's new/updated, de facto limiting now the use of any content to Zazzle's site. What automatically excludes the external use, including the "legalized" theft/rip-off of designs in any way and its sale on other PODs, Amazon and wherever else.

That's practically what I suggested, but in other words and embedded differently. With this change and the other ones which were already done, there is really nothing anymore that may cause a headache.


I hardly believe that anyone who uses this create tool reads and / or sticks to it.
The headaches are caused by people being able to do it.



No. The headaches were caused by the loose wording applying to collaborative content. That has now been tightened up so that designs in the MP made by us are no longer under copyright threat if used in a collaboration. This takes us back to before collaboration and new terms were even implemented. Thieves have always been able to go into the design tool on a customizable design and steal it that way. The headache came from the implication that the new terms said they were not actually stealing but rather taking what Zazzle had given them the rights to. The new new terms make it clear that collaboration does not give any rights to any part of the design that came from the MP.

The Create tool is an entirely different thing. Yes, people can download freely from it and do whatever with what they download. But NOTHING from the MP is accesible from the Create tool. In other threads people worried that might happen in the future but given that a mod flatly stated it won't and the Zazzle lawyers have tightened the collaboration terms to remove any hint of copyright loss, I am confident that won't happen in the future either.


Thank you Zazzle for making this change and thank you Col's Creations for spotlighting it.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:13:42 AM
Susannah Keegan wrote:



No. The headaches were caused by the loose wording applying to collaborative content. That has now been tightened up so that designs in the MP made by us are no longer under copyright threat if used in a collaboration. This takes us back to before collaboration and new terms were even implemented. Thieves have always been able to go into the design tool on a customizable design and steal it that way. The headache came from the implication that the new terms said they were not actually stealing but rather taking what Zazzle had given them the rights to. The new new terms make it clear that collaboration does not give any rights to any part of the design that came from the MP.

Personally I think the "headache" also comes from the way Zazzle wants customers to start using site. The way they intend for collaboration to be used is by having fun together customizing, chatting while doing it, everyone uploading their own pictures. And what do people want to do after a fun afternoon like that creating something really awesome? IMO very likely make a screenprint and use it in other ways too, not just to buy a product.
And Zazzle does nothing to help them remind that they are customizing somebody elses design that has copyright. It's the opposite: it says: "Invite people to collaborate on your design". And when I tried it, the person invited, doesn't even know what he/she is invited to. It's not mentioned anywhere. For all they know the design that's already there was put there by the person that invited them.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:15:29 AM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
[quote=GabiwArt][quote=PetsDreamlands][quote=Col's Creations©]
[quote]The Create tool is an entirely different thing. Yes, people can download freely from it and do whatever with what they download. But NOTHING from the MP is accesible from the Create tool. In other threads people worried that might happen in the future but given that a mod flatly stated it won't and the Zazzle lawyers have tightened the collaboration terms to remove any hint of copyright loss, I am confident that won't happen in the future either.


Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:24:06 AM
Terri wrote:

Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!

Yup.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 5:34:40 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:

Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!

Yup.


/facepalm

Crying

Now lemme go unhide 1000+ items...
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:00:29 AM

Does this mean that designers who purchased a license to add art to their design work can now safely keep those products published? That there will be no sub licensing issues? If so then that would be great.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:19:53 AM
Terri wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:

Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!

Yup.


/facepalm

Crying

Now lemme go unhide 1000+ items...

Maybe you wanna hear the opinion of other guys here, first, before you unhide all and then hide them again. ;-) I always was on the opposite side and never saw all these issues, but yes, the terms were open to interpretation here and there. Some gaps have now been closed, IMO, and explicitly mentioning the use of content limited to Zazzle's site and products is, again IMO, clear and safe enough.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:25:54 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:

Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!

Yup.


/facepalm

Crying

Now lemme go unhide 1000+ items...

Maybe you wanna hear the opinion of other guys here, first, before you unhide all and then hide them again. ;-) I always was on the opposite side and never saw all these issues, but yes, the terms were open to interpretation here and there. Some gaps have now been closed, IMO, and explicitly mentioning the use of content limited to Zazzle's site and products is, again IMO, clear and safe enough.


I was pretty much on the same side as you but started to get super paranoid ("what IF..!?") And spent the last 2-3 days hiding and even deleted a few.

I have such a massive headache + high blood pressure. I need to step back and take a rest. Sad

I spend the most time on here of all the PODs and this isn't even my most profitable POD. Not sure why I am over-investing here. I should maybe focus elsewhere for now and see what happens with Z.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:37:17 AM
Terri wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Terri wrote:

Wait, so I'm re-listing to disable Customization... for nothing?!

Yup.


/facepalm

Crying

Now lemme go unhide 1000+ items...

Maybe you wanna hear the opinion of other guys here, first, before you unhide all and then hide them again. ;-) I always was on the opposite side and never saw all these issues, but yes, the terms were open to interpretation here and there. Some gaps have now been closed, IMO, and explicitly mentioning the use of content limited to Zazzle's site and products is, again IMO, clear and safe enough.


I was pretty much on the same side as you but started to get super paranoid ("what IF..!?") And spent the last 2-3 days hiding and even deleted a few.

I have such a massive headache + high blood pressure. I need to step back and take a rest. Sad

I spend the most time on here of all the PODs and this isn't even my most profitable POD. Not sure why I am over-investing here. I should maybe focus elsewhere for now and see what happens with Z.


Terri, I actually hid some products yesterday and was waiting until the last minute. I didn't hide too many luckily.

I don't know if this is helpful but you probably already know that if you view your products by the most per page and select all then you can make them Public again that way but would need to be extra careful and make sure you click on the right setting.

Take it easy and have a break if you need it.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:55:31 AM
Terri wrote:

I was pretty much on the same side as you but started to get super paranoid ("what IF..!?") And spent the last 2-3 days hiding and even deleted a few.

I have such a massive headache + high blood pressure. I need to step back and take a rest. Sad

I spend the most time on here of all the PODs and this isn't even my most profitable POD. Not sure why I am over-investing here. I should maybe focus elsewhere for now and see what happens with Z.

Yes, I've noticed that many became overly insecure and tended towards the worst-case scenario. See it the positive way, at least you were wise enough not to prematurely delete all your hard work. But yes, focusing elsewhere right now may help to get some serenity back.

Zazzle will be my main store for sure, due to the huge assortment, the quality, the great customizing and designer features and also the pretty flexible royalty management. Opened a store on S6 for some nice products that aren't available here, but I already missed Zazzle's functionality there. Not interested in other ones. Checked the most known ones, but their assortment is too basic and you can't do what you can do here on Z. No, CP is no option.

I hope you'll find your best way and "recover" quickly. Cheers!
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:06:54 AM
Col's Creations© wrote:

go backwards:
Public Products = anything Posted for Sale/Use/Download
Posted for Sale/Use/Download = made up of Content
Content = Everything
and thus

Not to debate (mentally drained, really) - just to explain my thinking.

In that particular section, they are calling out collab PARTS and COMPILATIONS. Related to Public Products, they are only calling out COMPILATIONS only. Thus, I requested the clarification to ensure that both the parts and the sum of the parts were protected based on what I feel could be interpreted right there. Derivatives should be called out too.

I haven't gone back to look at the latest; my comment was relative to the language of that particular day. Again, I don't want to debate and no time anyway. I have a lot of work to do before midnight PST/3 EST and just no more time to wonder whether Zazzle will bother to respond.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:17:41 AM
Does no one else find it disturbing that Zazzle is making these changes and the only way we even know is people posting in the forum? They may be supposedly clarifications but it's just wrong we're not notified of them except from eagle eyed designers.

Or am I just an ignorant country bumpkin?

I simply don't want people playing with my images, I've seen enough horrors with transfer this design, and lowering my royalty. Actually I don't want people playing with my images period.

d
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:21:01 AM
I wonder how many of the "little guys" closed up shop because all the "Bigger Shops" that post in the forum were closing.

I wonder how many items were deleted in terror because they saw the larger stores "jump ship".

I wonder how many are sitting with sick feelings in their stomach, knowing NOW that you only HID your products, not deleted, LIKE YOU SAID.

smh...

Thank you for those who brought up the issues and got them banged out so far.

I'm sick, watching the HUNDREDS of threads that were formed, trying to keep up, and watching the same few stores pound over and over in every thread, making them unreadable.

Some of you have completely lost your credibility with me. Others have a renewed respect from me.

Been here a darn long time. Z has never tried to cheat me, and has never had any kind of shady undertone for us. Our stores are intact, and will remain that way.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:37:14 AM
I know I started to get really scared yesterday watching Silver designers close up shop and vanish. Shocked I was like I want to stay but they have more experience than me and maybe I should leave too? Anyways... I did open up at a few more PODS but I stayed here too. Some of my most precious works are exclusive to here because I uploaded the photos here and had a major computer failure before I got them anywhere else and then found that the backups of them were all corrupted so Crying
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:43:52 AM
RGebbiePhoto wrote:
I wonder how many of the "little guys" closed up shop because all the "Bigger Shops" that post in the forum were closing.

I wonder how many items were deleted in terror because they saw the larger stores "jump ship".

I wonder how many are sitting with sick feelings in their stomach, knowing NOW that you only HID your products, not deleted, LIKE YOU SAID.

smh...

Thank you for those who brought up the issues and got them banged out so far.

I'm sick, watching the HUNDREDS of threads that were formed, trying to keep up, and watching the same few stores pound over and over in every thread, making them unreadable.

Some of you have completely lost your credibility with me. Others have a renewed respect from me.

Been here a darn long time. Z has never tried to cheat me, and has never had any kind of shady undertone for us. Our stores are intact, and will remain that way.


Maybe your post isn't directed at me but everything is deleted from my store 'like I said'. I'm not sick to my stomach and to be honest I am not sure exactly what the new addition to the terms mean but I hope it's 'happy news' I'll figure that out later. I have not closed my store and I've said so. The collab tool was the issue for me and shared license copyrights. That stuck out to me and when I read it I didn't agree with it. If I redo my store it will be done differently. Glad you didn't do anything to your stores but for many of us the terms needed (maybe still need) changes to protect our copyrights and license. Sorry I don't get the credibility part of your post.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:47:03 AM
angelandspot wrote:
I know I started to get really scared yesterday watching Silver designers close up shop and vanish. Shocked I was like I want to stay but they have more experience than me and maybe I should leave too? Anyways... I did open up at a few more PODS but I stayed here too. Some of my most precious works are exclusive to here because I uploaded the photos here and had a major computer failure before I got them anywhere else and then found that the backups of them were all corrupted so Crying


I didn't want to close shop and in the worst case scenario would have deleted products and kept some I knew would be fine. Hope all will be calmer now.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 8:10:34 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:

I hardly believe that anyone who uses this create tool reads and / or sticks to it.
The headaches are caused by people being able to do it.

The issue that caused the whole havoc were the terms that had some gaps which could've been exploited for possible successful counterclaims from design thieves. These terms are now more clear and limiting. They don't prevent anyone to steal your design and use it elsewhere, but they clearly state now that you aren't allowed to do it. So if you catch such a design thief on Amazon, you can send a copyright claim and enforce the removal of the infringing product, without the thief being able to successfully counter with interpretable Zazzle terms. That's it.


I'm in agreement. I did think the original rewrite of the terms had some terrible holes. I don't think Zazzle would have spent several weeks with their lawyers to redo them yet again otherwise, but they've done their due diligence now...

I'm not going to agonize over thieves misreading/misinterpreting the licensing agreement.... they don't care a whit about what they are prohibited to do by it. If they are going to steal, they are going to steal. I'm not freaked out that someone might print out a postcard from a screen shot and send it rather than buying it.... they also don't care what's in the licensing agreement and don't care at all that they are getting an inferior product - and the small fry, well it's unlikely I will ever know or care about them anyway.... I do care about the ones who take my work and attempt to sell it as their own - I have caught and shut down a bunch of those on Amazon and one on Shopify. I surmise that would have only taken one or two successful pirates fighting take down on Amazon (and yes, I did have some fight me) with Zazzle's own terms to make them then flag all DCMA's from Zazzle for rejection and that was a large risk to me. I simply wanted to make sure there was a leg or two to stand on to fight them in the end and I'm satisfied that the ones that were sawed off have been reattached.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 9:09:06 AM
deemac1 wrote:
Does no one else find it disturbing that Zazzle is making these changes and the only way we even know is people posting in the forum? They may be supposedly clarifications but it's just wrong we're not notified of them except from eagle eyed designers.

Or am I just an ignorant country bumpkin?

I simply don't want people playing with my images, I've seen enough horrors with transfer this design, and lowering my royalty. Actually I don't want people playing with my images period.

d


Yes I am disturbed by the lack of notifications and responses

The only response I have gotten in the last few days was locking my thread and telling me to be patient.

it would have been nice to get a "hey we are updating the terms" or something like that...


trying to read the terms all the way through every single day to see if they have changed something else is exhausting.

and every bit of this could have been avoided if they would just offer opt outs from the gitgo.

how hard is that?
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 9:15:12 AM
RGebbiePhoto wrote:
I wonder how many of the "little guys" closed up shop because all the "Bigger Shops" that post in the forum were closing.

I wonder how many items were deleted in terror because they saw the larger stores "jump ship".

I wonder how many are sitting with sick feelings in their stomach, knowing NOW that you only HID your products, not deleted, LIKE YOU SAID.

smh...

Thank you for those who brought up the issues and got them banged out so far.

I'm sick, watching the HUNDREDS of threads that were formed, trying to keep up, and watching the same few stores pound over and over in every thread, making them unreadable.

Some of you have completely lost your credibility with me. Others have a renewed respect from me.

Been here a darn long time. Z has never tried to cheat me, and has never had any kind of shady undertone for us. Our stores are intact, and will remain that way.


The real big boys should have come in to say something when they saw what was happening.

The silence was pretty loud.

Every one here is also an adult and can make their own decisions.

No one was telling anyone else what to do.

Zazzle is the one who has lost my respect.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 11:06:56 AM
@SusannahKeegan - does that mean that work posted to Marketplace cannot be used in Create, even though the Agreement states work can be used "on this site in perpetuity" and "sitewide"? I'm confused now. There seems to be different interpretations about what perpetuity pertains to.

Why can't Zazzle pop in and clear this up?
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