Zero royalty question 2 pages: 1 [2]
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 12:29:40 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Sorry about the late reply...

The math gives me a headache, but the royalty rates were only (supposed to be)14.9% on all 3. Which were greeting cards with full bleed images (art that leaves no/very little white space)on the front. I thought at first it had to be text pairings they added on the inside, but remembered those are not available in the design tool. It seems odd that someone would add a background to the inside of the card. I would love to know where a background image was placed in each of these cards. I could see a customer adding a personal photo to the inside, but not the secondary backgrounds.

Apology unnecessary. ;)

As @Saints pointed out, a multi-sided Product could have multiple Backgrounds applied. In that case, the math works from 14.9 to 14.6 (with either 1 background on one 'side' or 2 backgrounds on two 'sides').

When I did my original math, I was working from the premise that the world is flat (isn't it?).

It's possible, if your background image is full bleed, that someone added a Background, couldn't see it (b/c it was under your graphic), and just left it OR they deleted your full-bleed graphic. Unfortunately, we receive no information and can't verify one way or another anything that is happening with reduced Royalties.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 1:09:37 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Unfortunately, we receive no information and can't verify one way or another anything that is happening with reduced Royalties.


And this is a huge problem! That needs to be remedied @Zazzle!
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 1:16:26 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Sorry about the late reply...

The math gives me a headache, but the royalty rates were only (supposed to be)14.9% on all 3. Which were greeting cards with full bleed images (art that leaves no/very little white space)on the front. I thought at first it had to be text pairings they added on the inside, but remembered those are not available in the design tool. It seems odd that someone would add a background to the inside of the card. I would love to know where a background image was placed in each of these cards. I could see a customer adding a personal photo to the inside, but not the secondary backgrounds.

Apology unnecessary. ;)

As @Saints pointed out, a multi-sided Product could have multiple Backgrounds applied. In that case, the math works from 14.9 to 14.6 (with either 1 background on one 'side' or 2 backgrounds on two 'sides').

When I did my original math, I was working from the premise that the world is flat (isn't it?).

It's possible, if your background image is full bleed, that someone added a Background, couldn't see it (b/c it was under your graphic), and just left it OR they deleted your full-bleed graphic. Unfortunately, we receive no information and can't verify one way or another anything that is happening with reduced Royalties.


Right. And in my flat world, I'm assuming my art is so amazing they would never cover it up!Laughing

But really, it does seems that 2 backgrounds were added to those reduced by .6% and 1 to the card reduced by .3%

I would like a better idea of what was added. We don't need specifics, just types and how many, especially when more elements are added into the tool. And I would actually like to know if my design was deleted or covered up, because I have my signature set to always be on top, so if they swap out my image my signature is still on it and I am not actually the artist or designer of the new image. Plus I have my logo with my shop url locked on the back of all the cards too.

I do realize this could have always been done with a customer image, but really feel that people would not go to that much trouble and frankly, the thought that someone might actually do that never occurred to me before the secondary content was added to the design tool and it actually (could have) happened.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 1:34:50 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:


I do realize this could have always been done with a customer image, but really feel that people would not go to that much trouble and frankly, the thought that someone might actually do that never occurred to me before the secondary content was added to the design tool and it actually (could have) happened.


There is one BIG difference though

That is that when it happened before secondary content was added, YOU did not have to pay for it.

there was never a royalty carveout for a buyer adding their own photo or art.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 1:42:06 PM
­čî╝Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
MelroseOriginals wrote:


I do realize this could have always been done with a customer image, but really feel that people would not go to that much trouble and frankly, the thought that someone might actually do that never occurred to me before the secondary content was added to the design tool and it actually (could have) happened.


There is one BIG difference though

That is that when it happened before secondary content was added, YOU did not have to pay for it.

there was never a royalty carveout for a buyer adding their own photo or art.


Right.

And the confusing thing is that we are getting the duplicate product "sales" in our last sold emails showing a zero or pennies royalty that isn't actually ours. It is extremely confusing, and the customer service team apparently has/had no idea what it was either. It would be better if it showed what was sold and then underneath the royalty deduction plus element type and how many.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 5:53:58 PM
this is the email from my earlier example. weird



I never got an answer for the first one, if anyone was wondering.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 11:52:57 PM
Jerry wrote:
this is the email from my earlier example. weird



I never got an answer for the first one, if anyone was wondering.

So the extra notification we get for the 0,00 or small royalty must be for the second content and not the User Option like Paddie said to Jules and me.
I wonder why they don't just tell us that? Really strange.
Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 10:54:55 AM
Jerry, I was playing with your leggings in the design tool and I have to say that you can do some really fun stuff with your leggings and the backgrounds. I removed the "hairy" part (as you wisely allow customers to do) and then with some of the transparent backgrounds, the customer is able to make some very interesting designs.

Just an FYI. I know it is not great that designers pay out of their royalties, but this is one instance where I find the tool would be fun for customers.... The customer can be creative because of how Jerry set up the product in the first place. They can make their own individual design... everywhere there is flesh color, a transparent background can be put over it.

And by the way Jerry, that is a very fun design.
Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 11:58:38 AM
wasootch wrote:
Jerry, I was playing with your leggings in the design tool and I have to say that you can do some really fun stuff with your leggings and the backgrounds. I removed the "hairy" part (as you wisely allow customers to do) and then with some of the transparent backgrounds, the customer is able to make some very interesting designs.

Just an FYI. I know it is not great that designers pay out of their royalties, but this is one instance where I find the tool would be fun for customers.... The customer can be creative because of how Jerry set up the product in the first place. They can make their own individual design... everywhere there is flesh color, a transparent background can be put over it.

And by the way Jerry, that is a very fun design.


Yes, the backgrounds themselves has never been the real issue. If they were not shaving my royalty with this secondary content I would not care if someone wants to add backgrounds and I would leave the designs open for it.

And right now with just a background here or there it seems like a minimal cost but think about this... if we are looking at what is available in the create tool as a sneak preview of what is still to come in our design tool then we still have text pairings, illustrations, templates, and elements like shapes to look forward to.

When those are available to choose from that is when we will start seeing more than a penny here or there coming out of our royalties.



Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 12:34:20 PM
Yes, this has been mentioned time and again by you and many other designers and I did say "I know it's not great that designers pay out of our royalties"... so it's not like I am cheerleading that. In fact, I don't think designers should pay for content added by customers.

I was only mentioning that, in this case, it would be fun for the customer and wanted to applaud Jerry for this customizable design that allowed a customer to mix it up.

I'm sure it would be a better situation if Jerry was able to provide his own unique backgrounds for customers to change.

But it's possible in this case that they bought the leggings because of the background addition. We can't know for sure without asking the customer though.

I'm simply discussing the issue from a "that is cool what the customer was able to do" standpoint.
Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 1:57:27 PM
­čî╝Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Unfortunately, we receive no information and can't verify one way or another anything that is happening with reduced Royalties.


And this is a huge problem! That needs to be remedied @Zazzle!


+1

I am very concerned about this.
Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 3:48:11 PM
wasootch wrote:
Yes, this has been mentioned time and again by you and many other designers and I did say "I know it's not great that designers pay out of our royalties"... so it's not like I am cheerleading that. In fact, I don't think designers should pay for content added by customers.

I was only mentioning that, in this case, it would be fun for the customer and wanted to applaud Jerry for this customizable design that allowed a customer to mix it up.

I'm sure it would be a better situation if Jerry was able to provide his own unique backgrounds for customers to change.

But it's possible in this case that they bought the leggings because of the background addition. We can't know for sure without asking the customer though.

I'm simply discussing the issue from a "that is cool what the customer was able to do" standpoint.



I get you. not trying to argue with you about that. it is a cool design. Smile


Adding: it is too bad about the circumstances and I guess I wish they would announce they are changing that aspect so that we could be happy about it.
Posted: Sunday, February 09, 2020 4:24:56 PM
wasootch wrote:

Just an FYI. I know it is not great that designers pay out of their royalties, but this is one instance where I find the tool would be fun for customers.... The customer can be creative because of how Jerry set up the product in the first place. They can make their own individual design... everywhere there is flesh color, a transparent background can be put over it.

I'm just trying to figure out the reporting and why Zazzle isn't being transparent about it. All content contributors, original and secondary, need to understand the calculations.

At this point, unless we study each and every sale under a microscope, we have no idea when secondary content is used on our products. Add these confusing email reports to the equation and we have total confusion. The reporting is disorganized and the lack of explanation from Zazzle about the reporting is disturbing.
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01:45 AM
Jerry wrote:
wasootch wrote:

Just an FYI. I know it is not great that designers pay out of their royalties, but this is one instance where I find the tool would be fun for customers.... The customer can be creative because of how Jerry set up the product in the first place. They can make their own individual design... everywhere there is flesh color, a transparent background can be put over it.

I'm just trying to figure out the reporting and why Zazzle isn't being transparent about it. All content contributors, original and secondary, need to understand the calculations.

At this point, unless we study each and every sale under a microscope, we have no idea when secondary content is used on our products. Add these confusing email reports to the equation and we have total confusion. The reporting is disorganized and the lack of explanation from Zazzle about the reporting is disturbing.


+1 very disturbing.
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 8:53:40 AM
wasootch wrote:
Yes, this has been mentioned time and again by you and many other designers and I did say "I know it's not great that designers pay out of our royalties"... so it's not like I am cheerleading that. In fact, I don't think designers should pay for content added by customers.

I was only mentioning that, in this case, it would be fun for the customer and wanted to applaud Jerry for this customizable design that allowed a customer to mix it up.

I'm sure it would be a better situation if Jerry was able to provide his own unique backgrounds for customers to change.

But it's possible in this case that they bought the leggings because of the background addition. We can't know for sure without asking the customer though.

I'm simply discussing the issue from a "that is cool what the customer was able to do" standpoint.

I think it's really nice that you as a Second Content seller are participating in the conversation. Could you explain to us what the sales notifications look like? I, and others are concerned that our privacy might be at stake. Is our product shown in the emails just like in the sales notifications shown in this thread? Thanks!
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:39:07 AM
Funcards wrote:
wasootch wrote:
Yes, this has been mentioned time and again by you and many other designers and I did say "I know it's not great that designers pay out of our royalties"... so it's not like I am cheerleading that. In fact, I don't think designers should pay for content added by customers.

I was only mentioning that, in this case, it would be fun for the customer and wanted to applaud Jerry for this customizable design that allowed a customer to mix it up.

I'm sure it would be a better situation if Jerry was able to provide his own unique backgrounds for customers to change.

But it's possible in this case that they bought the leggings because of the background addition. We can't know for sure without asking the customer though.

I'm simply discussing the issue from a "that is cool what the customer was able to do" standpoint.

I think it's really nice that you as a Second Content seller are participating in the conversation. Could you explain to us what the sales notifications look like? I, and others are concerned that our privacy might be at stake. Is our product shown in the emails just like in the sales notifications shown in this thread? Thanks!


+1
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:45:38 AM
Secondary content providers are under NDAs... so it is hard to discuss much of anything.

However, I think it is likely ok to let you know that we do not know what marketplace design has sold. I can't even tell if my secondary content has sold on a "create your own" product or a "marketplace" product... We can see that it sold on say a mug or a business card. But that is about it from what I've seen so far.


Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 9:53:01 AM
wasootch wrote:
Secondary content providers are under NDAs... so it is hard to discuss much of anything.

However, I think it is likely ok to let you know that we do not know what marketplace design has sold. I can't even tell if my secondary content has sold on a "create your own" product or a "marketplace" product... We can see that it sold on say a mug or a business card. But that is about it from what I've seen so far.




Too bad Zazzle has to throw a cloak of secrecy over this whole thing.

thanks for answering what you could.
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 10:05:20 AM
wasootch wrote:
Secondary content providers are under NDAs... so it is hard to discuss much of anything.

However, I think it is likely ok to let you know that we do not know what marketplace design has sold. I can't even tell if my secondary content has sold on a "create your own" product or a "marketplace" product... We can see that it sold on say a mug or a business card. But that is about it from what I've seen so far.



In that case, I really appreciate it you answering this question. That's a relief to know that that information isn't shown. Thank you Roses
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 10:07:35 AM
You're welcome. I can understand why that would be worrisome for people. I am also a marketplace designer and would not want what has sold shared with other designers like that.

I wish Zazzle would answer these questions.
Posted: Monday, February 10, 2020 1:32:51 PM
Funcards wrote:
wasootch wrote:
Secondary content providers are under NDAs... so it is hard to discuss much of anything.

However, I think it is likely ok to let you know that we do not know what marketplace design has sold. I can't even tell if my secondary content has sold on a "create your own" product or a "marketplace" product... We can see that it sold on say a mug or a business card. But that is about it from what I've seen so far.



In that case, I really appreciate it you answering this question. That's a relief to know that that information isn't shown. Thank you Roses


Personally, and this is just my personal view, I wouldn't mind secondary designers knowing what items of mine their design was being used on. IF - and only IF - the transparency of information went both ways, and we, the primary designer, were informed as to what secondary content customers were choosing, and how they were using it. This seems to me to be basic selling and marketing information that Zazzle now has about our design work, but they are keeping to themselves.

How can we improve our design offerings if we are kept in the dark about what it is that customers are choosing to buy?
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