Zero royalty question 2 pages: [1] 2
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:15:47 AM
I was waiting for an answer from Zazzle to the question from a fellow designer about zero royalties and sales not being recorded. But the question has been locked without a public answer. https://forum.zazzle.com/gallery/why_did_i_get_0_00_royalty_for_100_cards

Could I too have an answer please. In my case, it was for a single card rather than 100. It seems to be a similar issue. Here is the sales email, which shows two sales of the same card (but only one is recorded in my Royalty History).



Thank you!


Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:52:51 AM
Hi Jules, I assisted Funcards privately in the other thread you referred to. There was a lot of conjecture and speculation in that thread so I locked it. If you could provide me the 169 number from your royalty report, I would be happy to look in to this for you, thanks Smile
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:45:29 AM
Hi Padie - thank you for looking in to this.

The ID numbers on my royalty report are:

137-40182031-7168202 (I think that's the product ID?)
169-57889578-3448162 (which is as shown on the sales email, but quantity sold per the royalty report is only 1)
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 10:33:55 AM
Padie wrote:
Hi Jules, I assisted Funcards privately in the other thread you referred to. There was a lot of conjecture and speculation in that thread so I locked it. If you could provide me the 169 number from your royalty report, I would be happy to look in to this for you, thanks Smile

There wasn't "a lot of conjecture and speculation". Someone suggested it might be due to a buy one get one. Instead of locking the thread, you could have simply clarified and asked everyone to post their 169s in that thread considering others were also having the issue. The only difference between my experience and the OPs was that theirs was enclosure cards and mine was coasters that had been transferred from business cards. Different circumstance, same issue. You sent Funcards an email but, even though I posted about having the same issue, I never received an email.

Anyway, here is my 169.
169-22348209-0629492



Or should I too create an entirely new thread?
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 5:39:27 AM
Thanks all, looking into these now Smile
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 6:00:26 AM
Hi Jules, this is normal and expected behavior when a user option chosen by the customer is in play. It is not an extra sale as the email may suggest. It will only be recorded once in your royalty history but you should see a double entry in your CSV report. I hope that helps! Thanks Smile

@Jerry - Still Looking
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 6:44:35 AM
This may seem off topic but it really isn't.. Why do so many things about our earnings reports, such as this "expected behavior" for example, have to be so confusing?

Suggestion: would it be possible to get some up to date and detailed help documents that explain what we should expect in certain complex transactions? Then expected behavior wouldn't catch us by surprise because we weren't expecting it.


I am not trying to be snarky... we seriously need better record keeping tools for our earnings.

Adding: many of us are trying to treat this as a business but it is harder than it has to be with the data we have to work with.

Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:37:42 AM
It may be expected behavior, but it's not desired behavior, since it makes our back-end sorting for sales and orders useless, if user options are counted as sales.
I think this response is like... "it's not a glitch, it's a feature" ;-)
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 9:42:30 AM
Odd. I've had user options chosen any number of times, and yet I've never seen an email listing the option as if it's a separate sale.
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 3:36:50 PM
@Jules - Isn't that the same card you had Secondary on? Is the Royalty Rate your full RR or lower?

I only have one sale where I was forced "share" my Royalty, and the way it was reported in email matches my Earnings, and then shows an extra item which must be the Secondary Designer's "earnings."

There is also a 2-cent difference between that sale and one at my RR, so assuming Z got that cut.

Full Royalty $5.32
"Shared" $5.20
Unidentified questionable item 10 cents

That begs the question - is this the same email that goes to the Secondary Designer? Do they see the Primary Designer's Design/Product where the Secondary was used, while the Primary Designer doesn't know what was added?


Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 3:37:34 PM
Padie wrote:
Hi Jules, I assisted Funcards privately in the other thread you referred to. There was a lot of conjecture and speculation in that thread so I locked it. If you could provide me the 169 number from your royalty report, I would be happy to look in to this for you, thanks Smile

You're welcome to label it conjecture and speculation, of course, but that's all we're left with when we don't get answers, yes? Respectfully, is it conjecture and speculation when it's based on our own experiences and Mod posts in the Forum? Are we not permitted to attempt to assist our fellow Designers? And in the event it goes that way, am I off topic if I'm responding to a mod's post right here in this thread?
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 3:48:46 PM
LOL..... a lot of speculation was apparently my one question as to whether or not Zazzle ever gives BOGO coupons and if it might have been that in the one instance. Wow, I'm just wild and influential, I guess...
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:32:11 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
@Jules - Isn't that the same card you had Secondary on? Is the Royalty Rate your full RR or lower?

I only have one sale where I was forced "share" my Royalty, and the way it was reported in email matches my Earnings, and then shows an extra item which must be the Secondary Designer's "earnings."

There is also a 2-cent difference between that sale and one at my RR, so assuming Z got that cut.

Full Royalty $5.32
"Shared" $5.20
Unidentified questionable item 10 cents

That begs the question - is this the same email that goes to the Secondary Designer? Do they see the Primary Designer's Design/Product where the Secondary was used, while the Primary Designer doesn't know what was added?




If what we are seeing here is secondary content I have some important questions for Zazzle...

1.) Where is the line item identifier for the secondary content added in the earnings report?

We need something to indicate when these royalty carveouts are taking place... on which products and we should get to know what was added and who was paid for it... since we are the ones paying.

2.) Are these same emails going out to the secondary designers?

If so this is a privacy issue and shouldn't happen. Especially since the primary designer does not get to see the final edit of the designed product sold or who the secondary designer is.

3.) How do you expect us to find out anything about what is going on here? When no answers are ever given to our questions... there is no choice but to speculate.

We deserve to know what is happening with our sales, the royalties we are being forced to share and we must have better reports in order to keep track of what you are doing with our money and whether we are we being paid the correct amounts.

I am disappointed in the unprofessional way this is all being rolled out. I am disillusioned in the way you are treating primary designers and how hard hearted you are being by not offering us opt outs. I want to love you Zazzle but you are making it difficult.



Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 8:08:53 PM
I had an order last week of 3 note cards that I had this same issue with. I got the sales email with duplicate items showing royalties for pennies and I emailed and was told they are looking in to it.

I just went and checked closer after reading this thread and realized that they were at reduced royalty rates so they must have had secondary content added. 2 were reduced by .6% and one by .3%.

I need to pay closer attention to my sales stats. So much for thinking I wouldn’t really be affected by this. It was minimal money wise, but I’m still not feeling great about this whole set up.

I’m not sure why they didn’t know right away the cause for it when they responded to me.
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 10:55:13 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
I had an order last week of 3 note cards that I had this same issue with. I got the sales email with duplicate items showing royalties for pennies and I emailed and was told they are looking in to it.

I just went and checked closer after reading this thread and realized that they were at reduced royalty rates so they must have had secondary content added. 2 were reduced by .6% and one by .3%.

I need to pay closer attention to my sales stats. So much for thinking I wouldn’t really be affected by this. It was minimal money wise, but I’m still not feeling great about this whole set up.

I’m not sure why they didn’t know right away the cause for it when they responded to me.


They might or might not have known what it is. (maybe it is not their department?... they should know though)

The money wise part will add up but isn’t the only issue.

These designs (if they had secondary added) went out with your name as one of the designers but who knows what it looks like now?)

Why we have to find these by tripping over them is a huge issue! They should be clearly marked in our earnings reports. Emails are unreliable and insufficient for our accounting records.



Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 11:11:05 PM
Padie wrote:
Hi Jules, this is normal and expected behavior when a user option chosen by the customer is in play. It is not an extra sale as the email may suggest. It will only be recorded once in your royalty history but you should see a double entry in your CSV report. I hope that helps! Thanks Smile

@Jerry - Still Looking


You said this is due to a user option being in play.

Can you please confirm that the user option is secondary content or are we forced to continue to speculate?

I don’t understand all the secrecy, it is not like we don’t have a right to know when we are paying for secondary content and how much we are paying. We have to account for our earnings and you (Zazzle) should be providing adequate reports so that we can.
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 12:56:16 AM
Jules,

Just curious, in this picture you showed two cards, both with User Options and one with your set royalty, and the other with less royalty. Is the email you received and showed here, for the second card (Any age birthday)? And if so, did you also receive a email like that (one with royalty and other with zero royalty) for the first card (13th birthday) , since that one also has User Options?

https://forum.zazzle.com/feedback/second_content?m=1712792
Jules wrote:
Jules wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Has anyone seen what this looks like in the sales and earnings reports yet?

Why we haven't had at least that question answered yet is troubling.


I think this is an example. The only reason I can think of for the strange royalty figures in the second sale is that there has been an adjustment for secondary content. My actual royalty is set at 14.9% for both cards. Note that the 'User Option' royalty has also been decreased:


It would be normal for both cards to have a 'c' for customization: I expect buyers to use the template feature to add their choice of name. There is no other indication of edits/additions by the buyer.

Zazzle - Can you confirm if what I see here is the charge for secondary content, made by adjusting the royalty percentages?


ZAZZLE - Please could I have an answer to my question from 3rd January. It is quite straight forward. Either "Yes, this is a secondary content adjustment" or "No, it's something else".
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 10:53:17 AM
Funcards,

Well spotted! Yes the 'double email' I posted earlier in this thread is for the same order that I queried elsewhere as having a reduced royalty.

So it is possible that in both cases the answer has something to do with secondary content. But until Zazzle are a bit more forthcoming, we are left fumbling in the dark and just guessing, trying to make sense of the various reports and emails.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 3:44:24 AM
Jules wrote:
Funcards,

Well spotted! Yes the 'double email' I posted earlier in this thread is for the same order that I queried elsewhere as having a reduced royalty.

So it is possible that in both cases the answer has something to do with secondary content. But until Zazzle are a bit more forthcoming, we are left fumbling in the dark and just guessing, trying to make sense of the various reports and emails.

I didn't think to look to see if there was a reduced royalty on mine. Sure enough, there is. It was a transfer and my default royalty is 14.5%, these sold at 14.2%. The original product already had a background image. I'm not sure why a customer would have added another background image. But if this is a secondary content charge, according to the math, this one would be the 1.96% element charge. The thing is though, aside from Zazzle's basic shapes, there are no elements yet in the design tool. There are only background images so far, which have a 25% charge.

I never got an answer, I suppose he is "still looking", and apparently we aren't allowed to speculate so... I'll stop now and just continue wondering.

ETA: and today I just got this one

Somehow I lost 0.1% on two pair of leggings.

If these are royalty share, we need to know.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 6:52:20 AM
@ Jerry - Backgrounds are considered elements.

A secondary content provider confirmed this in ... I believe ... the "Second Content" post.


ETA - That post is here.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:03:13 AM
Jerry wrote:
Jules wrote:
Funcards,

Well spotted! Yes the 'double email' I posted earlier in this thread is for the same order that I queried elsewhere as having a reduced royalty.

So it is possible that in both cases the answer has something to do with secondary content. But until Zazzle are a bit more forthcoming, we are left fumbling in the dark and just guessing, trying to make sense of the various reports and emails.

I didn't think to look to see if there was a reduced royalty on mine. Sure enough, there is. It was a transfer and my default royalty is 14.5%, these sold at 14.2%. The original product already had a background image. I'm not sure why a customer would have added another background image. But if this is a secondary content charge, according to the math, this one would be the 1.96% element charge. The thing is though, aside from Zazzle's basic shapes, there are no elements yet in the design tool. There are only background images so far, which have a 25% charge.

I never got an answer, I suppose he is "still looking", and apparently we aren't allowed to speculate so... I'll stop now and just continue wondering.

ETA: and today I just got this one

Somehow I lost 0.1% on two pair of leggings.

If these are royalty share, we need to know.


Bear with me while I speculate...

if backgrounds are the only secondary content available in the marketplace design tool and marketplace products are not accessible via the "create" design tool...

yet you have examples here that seem to be royalty shares due to secondary content being added and they have different percentages shaved off...

why?

either backgrounds have different rates according to the background image? (maybe ?)

or somehow your products are being accessed from the create design tool where there are several more types of secondary content available. (hope not!)


ETA: IF what we are looking at here is secondary content royalty sharing...

If not, then I have no idea what else it could be.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:10:55 AM
Shelli, I thought customers could see the backgrounds when they click Customize on our products the same as we can see it.

Jerry, that was my initial question way back when - the fact that a customer could play around, clicking some backgrounds, and when they discover it doesn't work because the design already covers the entire surface, the customer just leaves whatever background they've chosen, not realizing it's actually in there. It's there, and we get charged for it.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:15:53 AM
Colorwash wrote:
Shelli, I thought customers could see the backgrounds when they click Customize on our products the same as we can see it.



yes that is right...

what I was saying is that there are none of the other things in there besides the backgrounds (so far) like there is if you go into the "Create" design tool.

in the "create" tool there are text pairings, illustrations, elements and backgrounds. (so far)

Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 9:07:26 AM
I didn't even think about those other doohickeys.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 10:40:53 AM
Further confirming what JB said, Backgrounds are Elements, per HERE.

Seeing what is getting its share (no pun...) of Secondary Content debunks the theory that "Now consider this: You make complete designs I bet. Why would customers want to modify your design so much that they would want to put a big image on top of your art or replace the one you carefully picked for the composition? It is not likely."

I don't think very many subscribed to that in the first place, and now we're seeing it in action. Yay.

Jerry wrote:
ETA: and today I just got this one

Somehow I lost 0.1% on two pair of leggings.

If these are royalty share, we need to know.

5% x 1.96% = .1%

That's how the math is working on the one I posted about ^^^above, and that sale is the one where I got the sale email with the weird Royalty. It can't be coincidence that for each pillaged Royalty Rate we have emails indicating $0 Royalty. (Fact: My Royalty Rate was reduced + Fact: The email for that sale had the weirdness ≠ Speculation)

MelroseOriginals wrote:
2 were reduced by .6% and one by .3%.

30% Royalty Rate x 1.96% = .59. So if your RR on the one reduced by .6% is 30ish%, that math works. On a RR of 14.9%, the 1.96% reduction is .3%

Technically speaking, if the reduction is more than 1.96% of the Royalty/Royalty Rate, there are only a couple ways that could happen, based on the known fact that one Background is permitted on a Product ("Background" being from the Background sidebar; not talking about how many things we layer to create our own backgrounds which are Layers). There could be a beta test floating around with additional Elements or a Secondary Designer who has the access to upload Secondary Content might be able to upload it to live designs and purchase.

Otherwise, only the 1.96% Background "share" can occur as of this posting.

Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 3:28:57 PM
If the product has a front and a back, an inside and an outside, etc. each area could have its own background.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 3:52:00 PM
Saints_Aplenty wrote:
If the product has a front and a back, an inside and an outside, etc. each area could have its own background.

And that would be even more deducted from the designer's royalty.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 6:15:38 PM
Saints_Aplenty wrote:
If the product has a front and a back, an inside and an outside, etc. each area could have its own background.

Oh, yeah. True! I apparently design one-sided Products. lol
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:23:10 AM
Padie wrote:
Hi Jules, this is normal and expected behavior when a user option chosen by the customer is in play. It is not an extra sale as the email may suggest. It will only be recorded once in your royalty history but you should see a double entry in your CSV report. I hope that helps! Thanks Smile

@Jerry - Still Looking


Hi Padie,

No, this doesn't explain why I got two Sales emails for the same Order, one of the emails showing a zero royalty. That is NOT standard behaviour where a customer option has been applied. Could you look again please.
Posted: Saturday, February 08, 2020 12:23:31 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:


MelroseOriginals wrote:
2 were reduced by .6% and one by .3%.

30% Royalty Rate x 1.96% = .59. So if your RR on the one reduced by .6% is 30ish%, that math works. On a RR of 14.9%, the 1.96% reduction is .3%

Technically speaking, if the reduction is more than 1.96% of the Royalty/Royalty Rate, there are only a couple ways that could happen, based on the known fact that one Background is permitted on a Product ("Background" being from the Background sidebar; not talking about how many things we layer to create our own backgrounds which are Layers). There could be a beta test floating around with additional Elements or a Secondary Designer who has the access to upload Secondary Content might be able to upload it to live designs and purchase.

Otherwise, only the 1.96% Background "share" can occur as of this posting.



Sorry about the late reply...

The math gives me a headache, but the royalty rates were only (supposed to be)14.9% on all 3. Which were greeting cards with full bleed images (art that leaves no/very little white space)on the front. I thought at first it had to be text pairings they added on the inside, but remembered those are not available in the design tool. It seems odd that someone would add a background to the inside of the card. I would love to know where a background image was placed in each of these cards. I could see a customer adding a personal photo to the inside, but not the secondary backgrounds.
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