Non-contributing account fees 3 pages: [1] 2 3
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 4:09:08 AM
I'm concerned about the new policy changes that have been announced. They say:

In the future, an account will be deemed a “Non-Contributing Account” if either (1) a public Product has not been published, or (2) there has been no Referral Sale attributed to the account in the previous 15 month period. Non-Contributing Accounts will be subject to a monthly “Non-Contributing Account Fee.”

I take that to mean if either of those conditions are met, the user will be charged a fee each month. I publish products pretty much daily, make sales on the marketplace and 3rd party referrals, but I can't seem to pull in my own referrals. Does that mean I'll be charged?! How much is this fee? Does it also apply to account holders who buy but don't sell?
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 4:19:50 AM
.

(1) [...], or (2) [...]

Since you publish daily, I don't see a problem. No you won't be charged. The account is free if you publish a product every 15 month.

The condition for a free account is so easily met, that you don't need to worry.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 5:58:32 AM
Shouldn't the fee apply under conditions 1 and 2, then? If either/or is the legal wording of the new agreement, they'll be charging $2USD/month from anyone who doesn't meet both conditions (found the fee chart at https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019101674-Non-Contributing-Account-Fees).
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 6:14:38 AM
Aadam_Photography wrote:
Shouldn't the fee apply under conditions 1 and 2, then? If either/or is the legal wording of the new agreement, they'll be charging $2USD/month from anyone who doesn't meet both conditions (found the fee chart at https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019101674-Non-Contributing-Account-Fees).



No No No. Having "or" be the wording means that an account holder only has to meet one of the conditions to avoid being charged as "non contributing". It looks like they are trying to force people to close their accounts who don't use them any more. Lots of people design but don't get referral sales often (or ever), especially since referrals are so dependent on cookies being enabled. On the flip side, there are social media experts who don't design but do promote the heck out of Zazzle products and therefore get referrals, certainly more often than once every 15 months. You only need to be in one of the groups (active designer or active associate), not both, to avoid being categorized as "non contributing".
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 6:25:06 AM
I'm assuming this does not apply to customer accounts, but I feel that the language isn't clear on this. And if a customer opts in to the associates program, does the new fee policy then apply to them? So would it be best to advise people to stay opted out if they don't want to risk it?

I have family/friends that share for me on social media and I have told them if a sale is made from that link they could earn a referral. Hopefully they just get opted out and don't have to worry about it since they are just customer accounts.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 6:49:36 AM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
I'm assuming this does not apply to customer accounts, but I feel that the language isn't clear on this.

Yeah, the language is very unclear.

It says "The updated Policies will be effective for all Users.." and then just "an account" and "the account" in the paragraph

People have to register an account to buy anything, just like at so many other e-tailers, but it would be nonsensical to be attempting to assess a fee onto shoppers. So they have to be talking about just designers and affiliates - those attempting to sell or refer. But what is the criteria for crossing from shopper to designer/referrer? I would guess it would be that check-box for opting-in to activate a rf# but who knows.

Also, I agree with Susannah, that this is an either/or thing - as long as you've published a product or made a referral, no fee.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 7:15:29 AM
So where's the fee going to come from, the designer's earnings? Why don't Z just set the non contributor's store to private instead of taking their money?
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:27:33 AM
waterart wrote:
So where's the fee going to come from, the designer's earnings?

I believe so:

Quote:

If applicable, the Non-Contributing Account Fee will be deducted from your account's Earned and Payable Earnings prior to when Earnings are paid.

Once a Non-Contributing Account Fee has been deducted from your account's Earned and Payable Earnings, this deduction cannot be reversed or refunded.

Non-Contributing Account Fees cannot cause an account's Earned and Payable Earnings to become negative, so in the event that Earned and Payable Earnings are insufficient to cover the relevant Non-Contributing Account Fee being assessed, Earned and Payable Earnings will be deducted until the balance is equal to zero.


The fee is $2.00 US, monthly. There's a table that shows the fees for other countries (which is based on your payment preferences).
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:28:58 AM
where is this announcement? I must have missed it.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:44:53 AM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
No No No. Having "or" be the wording means that an account holder only has to meet one of the conditions to avoid being charged as "non contributing".

That's my interpretation, too. I think it would be clearer to say something like 'either post a product for sale or earn a referral every 15 months to avoid being classified as a non-contributing account.'

Instead, it's this:

"an account will be deemed a “Non-Contributing Account” if either (1) a public Product has not been published, or (2) there has been no Referral Sale attributed to the account in the previous 15 month period."

See if by reading the change below, you find a difference in meaning between the two:

"an account will be deemed a “Non-Contributing Account” if neither (1) a public Product has been published, nor (2) there has been a Referral Sale attributed to the account in the previous 15 month period."
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:45:16 AM
Jerry wrote:
where is this announcement? I must have missed it.

There's a link at the top of the Zazzle home page.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:50:46 AM
is this per account or per store?
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:53:04 AM
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:55:02 AM
The_Simple_Succulent wrote:
is this per account or per store?
The announcement says account.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:56:05 AM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Jerry wrote:
where is this announcement? I must have missed it.

There's a link at the top of the Zazzle home page.


that explains it. I never look at the home page anymore because it never changes. I do look at my news tab frequently though, where this announcement should have been.

thanks for the answer
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 9:09:12 AM
This may be helpful to clearing up the either/or language:

Quote:
22.2 Your account may be deemed "contributing" again at any time, once you publish a public Product or have a Referral Sale attributed to your account.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 9:11:29 AM
Jerry wrote:
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Jerry wrote:
where is this announcement? I must have missed it.

There's a link at the top of the Zazzle home page.


that explains it. I never look at the home page anymore because it never changes. I do look at my news tab frequently though, where this announcement should have been.

thanks for the answer

Yeah...I'm not sure why they did this on the home page; seems like that might be confusing to shoppers who aren't also designers?

Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 9:14:41 AM
If we're all trying to parse the statements, what would it be like for a customer tripping across them? Outta here in a heartbeat, no doubt.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 10:11:20 AM
Hmm. Do shoppers ever have a credit to their Zazzle account that could wind up leaving the money just sitting there? Maybe that's why it's on the home page.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 11:52:35 AM
So if someone isn't adding more products and isn't getting referral sales but is still making sales they are still going to be out $2 every month?
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 12:09:54 PM
waterart wrote:
So if someone isn't adding more products and isn't getting referral sales but is still making sales they are still going to be out $2 every month?


pretty much...except it seems to be either or... as long as you add one product every 6 months you are good... or if you don't add products but you make a referral every 6 months you are still good.

Adding: you don't have to be doing both... does that make sense?

That way it covers both designers who don't affiliate and affiliates who don't design.

Edit: I was wrong in this post about the length of time, it is not 6 months it is 15 months.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 12:31:02 PM
Colorwash wrote:
If we're all trying to parse the statements, what would it be like for a customer tripping across them? Outta here in a heartbeat, no doubt.


The updated Policies will be effective for all Users starting on April 1, 2019, and while you’ll need to reference the Policies for full details, key updates include:

For our User Agreement:

Zazzle is at its best when you and the rest of our community are engaged and involved. In the future, an account will be deemed a “Non-Contributing Account” if either (1) a public Product has not been published, or (2) there has been no Referral Sale attributed to the account in the previous 15 month period. Non-Contributing Accounts will be subject to a monthly “Non-Contributing Account Fee.”


Why does this apply to "all users"? If I was just a casual Zazzle shopper who had created an account and I clicked the home page link and this is the first thing I see, I would delete my account and never look back. I wouldn't even read the rest of the statement. That wording makes it seem that Zazzle wants every user to publish products and/or make referrals or be charged a fee.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 1:31:16 PM
I got the email as well. I'm confused about why I have gotten the email since I have uploaded new products in the last 15 months. Why am I getting an email about being charged?
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 2:31:45 PM
Interesting replies in this thread...I will leave it at that.

That didn't take long for them to be deleted...
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 3:51:47 PM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Jerry wrote:
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Jerry wrote:
where is this announcement? I must have missed it.

There's a link at the top of the Zazzle home page.


that explains it. I never look at the home page anymore because it never changes. I do look at my news tab frequently though, where this announcement should have been.

thanks for the answer

Yeah...I'm not sure why they did this on the home page; seems like that might be confusing to shoppers who aren't also designers?



Keep in mind that we are talking interactive software. Nothing you see on zazzle when you are locked in is necessarily what customers see, from announcements at the top to the choice of recommendations underneath your products.

Interactive pages that take your activities and status into account can make announcements customers never get to see.

I was recently reminded of this fact by facebook again. I'm presented with a page there which is designed to manipulate me, flatter me to act within their intended route. Facebook is mastering this type of website.

I'm sure to some extend zazzle employs similar functionalities to further their agenda. And I don't mean it as negative as it sounds. It is just a fact of interactive websites.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 3:52:28 PM
ArtAttic wrote:
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Interesting replies in this thread...I will leave it at that.

That didn't take long for them to be deleted...


Darn, this I miss out on the fun??? Grin Grin Grin


You did Shocked
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 5:40:39 PM
vivendulies wrote:
Keep in mind that we are talking interactive software. Nothing you see on zazzle when you are locked in is necessarily what customers see, from announcements at the top to the choice of recommendations underneath your products.

Interactive pages that take your activities and status into account can make announcements customers never get to see.


I use a separate browser to view Zazzle as though I was a random internet visitor without an account. This announcement shows on every page to a logged out potential customer. It's not selective.

People are already talking about it on social media and none of it is positive. Zazzle Support on Twitter is not having a good day. It's only really a matter of time before the news sites pick up on it.

As designers, we've already done what we can, by giving feedback. It's on Zazzle now. If they don't fix it, I'd expect to see a drop in earnings as customers leave. The best thing people can do for their stores at the moment is to work on other sources of income, so you can weather what's about to go down.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 6:04:52 PM
Polenth wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
Keep in mind that we are talking interactive software. Nothing you see on zazzle when you are locked in is necessarily what customers see, from announcements at the top to the choice of recommendations underneath your products.

Interactive pages that take your activities and status into account can make announcements customers never get to see.


I use a separate browser to view Zazzle as though I was a random internet visitor without an account. This announcement shows on every page to a logged out potential customer. It's not selective.

People are already talking about it on social media and none of it is positive. Zazzle Support on Twitter is not having a good day. It's only really a matter of time before the news sites pick up on it.

As designers, we've already done what we can, by giving feedback. It's on Zazzle now. If they don't fix it, I'd expect to see a drop in earnings as customers leave. The best thing people can do for their stores at the moment is to work on other sources of income, so you can weather what's about to go down.


thanks for that warning... I had a bad gut feeling as soon as I read the new TOS...
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 6:25:18 PM
Polenth wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
Keep in mind that we are talking interactive software. Nothing you see on zazzle when you are locked in is necessarily what customers see, from announcements at the top to the choice of recommendations underneath your products.

Interactive pages that take your activities and status into account can make announcements customers never get to see.


I use a separate browser to view Zazzle as though I was a random internet visitor without an account. This announcement shows on every page to a logged out potential customer. It's not selective.

People are already talking about it on social media and none of it is positive. Zazzle Support on Twitter is not having a good day. It's only really a matter of time before the news sites pick up on it.

As designers, we've already done what we can, by giving feedback. It's on Zazzle now. If they don't fix it, I'd expect to see a drop in earnings as customers leave. The best thing people can do for their stores at the moment is to work on other sources of income, so you can weather what's about to go down.


Ooops. That is a piece of amateur hours. But the last storm concerning antisemitism had no effect on my sales whatsoever. I'm fairly positive this storm will have little effect on my sales.

Though I still wish zazzle had made this an opt in to the new terms or we close your account introduction.

.
Posted: Friday, March 08, 2019 8:07:57 PM
Polenth wrote:

Zazzle Support on Twitter is not having a good day.


At least there is encouraging information being given there. "The fee is only applied against unclaimed earnings balance (not gift card or returns balances)." seems to be the cookie cutter answer. Then why isn't that information on THIS PAGE at the very top?

Here, I fixed it...

Zazzle is at its best when you, the designer and/or associate, and the rest of our design community are engaged and involved. In the future, a designer account or associate account will be deemed a “Non-Contributing Account” if either (1) a public Product has not been published to the designer account, or (2) there has been no Referral Sale attributed to the associate account in the previous 15 month period. Non-Contributing Accounts will be subject to a monthly “Non-Contributing Account Fee.” The fee is only applied against unclaimed earnings balance for designers and associates (not gift card or returns balances).

You're welcome.
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