Abstract Store! TAGS?
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 8:39:39 AM
Hi, I'm currently struggling with how I can develop my store. I've got an Abstract Artwork store where the most common tags that I use are:

"artwork" "painting "...colors..." "liquid art" "geometric" "abstract art" "cool art" "original art" and 2 more specific tags like shiny and stars.

I still don't get any views and wonder if the tags are the problem?

My typical Description goes like this: Original abstract artwork with the colors of .....

Or is the problem just that I've got too a few products, only got 135 products at my store so that might be the solution to get exposure?

Please have a look at my store and tell me what you think!

https://www.zazzle.com/store/elazart/
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 8:47:43 AM
Elazart wrote:
Hi, I'm currently struggling with how I can develop my store. I've got an Abstract Artwork store where the most common tags that I use are:

"artwork" "painting "...colors..." "liquid art" "geometric" "abstract art" "cool art" "original art" and 2 more specific tags like shiny and stars.

I still don't get any views and wonder if the tags are the problem?

My typical Description goes like this: Original abstract artwork with the colors of .....

Or is the problem just that I've got too a few products, only got 135 products at my store so that might be the solution to get exposure?

Please have a look at my store and tell me what you think!

https://www.zazzle.com/store/elazart/


Here is a current thread running. Read through it, and see how you might be able to work up a better description to catch a better audience:

https://forum.zazzle.com/new/lets_do_a_description_exercise_anyone
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 9:08:33 AM
I also recommend diversifying.

You have nothing in the Invitations/Cards department even though your art would work quite well as postcards. I have sold many art postcards since they are an inexpensive way for people to have a little art.

You have nothing in the office/school supplies department even though your art is a good fit for paperweights and file folders. I recommend doing the same design but in three different color variations, one for each folder.

You have nothing from the craft/party supplies department even though your art would be a good fit for tissue paper.


In the home department you have stuck to pillows but I see your art doing well on car mats, pillowcases, coasters.


In clothing I'd suggest socks and shoes.

I challenged myself to put my designs on as many different products as I could- always adapting each one to fit the product. In this way I got surprise sales from things I never expected such as pencils and paper plates. But don't use Quick Create. It's best practice to design each product thoughtfully and individually.

It's also a good idea to have at least some template products. Put in a name or initials and set them to template. This works particularly well for phone cases.
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 9:13:21 AM


These are the tags you currently have for this item:
trendy,cool,stylish,summer sunset,athleisure,orange, black,original art,art,painting

If it were mine I would end up with tags more like this:

modern abstract original painting, trendy artistic design, vibrant orange, golden yellow, bold black, cool, stylish original art, paint splatters, summer sunset, artsy,

Tagging is definitely something I struggle with and I have found that having a word document for each design with a running list of keywords, titles, and descriptions to copy paste helps me to try to get all the keywords in for each product and makes publishing a little faster.

-Malissa

Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 11:09:13 AM
Elazart wrote:
Hi, I'm currently struggling with how I can develop my store. I've got an Abstract Artwork store where the most common tags that I use are:

"artwork" "painting "...colors..." "liquid art" "geometric" "abstract art" "cool art" "original art" and 2 more specific tags like shiny and stars.

I still don't get any views and wonder if the tags are the problem?

My typical Description goes like this: Original abstract artwork with the colors of .....

Or is the problem just that I've got too a few products, only got 135 products at my store so that might be the solution to get exposure?

Please have a look at my store and tell me what you think!

https://www.zazzle.com/store/elazart/

Read and practice this: https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000373127-Title-Description-Tagging-Best-Practices

You need to be going much further with your titles, descriptions, and tags.

I suggest you start by writing down all the keywords relevant to the design. The most important ones belong in your title. The description incorporates more of them. How to discover those keywords?

Let's look at this example:

https://www.zazzle.com/golden_splash_case_mate_iphone_case-179655245867881300

What does it represent? Or is it non-representational? What does it express? What is the color scheme? I see shades of orange, red, brown, pale yellow - in other words, 'warm colors' <- use that.

What else do we see - what are the forms used?

I see a chaotic tangle of wires. A splash of dark red. Metallic qualities. Something pale and ghostly. Now: What do you see?

Your description should tell search engines what potential buyers would see, if they could see it.

This (your description): An abstract golden splash, with some glittering sparkles and a black shade. - doesn't actually say much.

Who is the audience for this work? Why would they want this work on this product? What terms are they likely to use when searching for something like this?

You have to try to get inside the head of a potential buyer. Understanding what appeals to the target audience - and why - isn't always easy, but it's essential when you're trying to sell something to a niche group of buyers; something in this case that isn't common and immediately recognizable to a broader audience.

With abstract works, they're perhaps more likely going to be using keywords in their searches that describe the genre, colors, a feeling. Maybe forms or shapes within the works. Possibly the methods by which the work was created.

Answering the questions above should aid you in discovering keywords and developing a description.

As for your tags, I don't agree with those who say repetition of terms within tags "adds weight". Adding weight through repetition comes from spreading it across the title, description, and tags. I try to avoid repeating keywords within the tags, as it becomes spammy. In your tags for this work, I see the word 'art' four times. It's evidence that you need to spend some more time coming up with keywords - your problem shouldn't be 'what to use besides the word 'art'. It should be "I've got all these keywords - too many to fit within my 10 tags." So then you have to figure out which ones can be paired in short phrases (five words or less.) If you end up with several that can be paired with the word 'art', choose one - the one least likely to stand on its own in relevance to your work. Use the rest by themselves. You can also use variations - artsy, artistry.

I could write your title, description, and tags for this work. But I'm not going to do that. The reason being, I think you need to learn how to go through the process of discovering keywords, and you'll get more out of this if you think long and hard on the questions I posed above, than you would if I simply supplied you with suggested replacements for them.

Last thing: Are you famous? If not, drop "elazart" from your tags. It only belongs there if people you don't know personally are likely to nonetheless know that name, and search on it. Otherwise, it's a waste of a tag.

And yes, I still need to work on applying everything I've said above to my own situation, and I need to clean up my own mistakes. I'm trying to help you avoid repeating those same mistakes.
Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 12:43:09 PM
I am just going to throw you a list of some common keywords for abstract art which is the most challenging and hardest to describe of all.

modern
contemporary
edgy
decorative
concept art
minimalist
dramatic
creative
compelling
ornate
elaborate
quirky
artsy
graphic
imaginative
bizarre
futuristic


I have a list of words like this taped to the wall next to where I work for times when I am having brain fog to give myself a kick start.

obviously I don't use them all at once and I try to work them into phrases like

cool colorful modern concept art,
dramatic imaginative abstract design,

etc... you get the idea.

Posted: Tuesday, August 06, 2019 12:56:41 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I am just going to throw you a list of some common keywords for abstract art which is the most challenging and hardest to describe of all.

modern
contemporary
edgy
decorative
concept art
minimalist
dramatic
creative
compelling
ornate
elaborate
quirky
artsy
graphic
imaginative
bizarre
futuristic


I have a list of words like this taped to the wall next to where I work for times when I am having brain fog to give myself a kick start.

obviously I don't use them all at once and I try to work them into phrases like

cool colorful modern concept art,
dramatic imaginative abstract design,

etc... you get the idea.



Good list Shelli! I use a few myself, but I'm going to take the rest of these too! Idea
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:12:25 AM
Thanks for the great response!

Melissa, I took the tags straight away and put them to practice!

“modern abstract original painting” “trendy artistic design” “vibrant orange” “golden yellow” “bold black” “cool” “stylish original art” “paint splatters” “summer sunset” “artsy”



And created this, description for it!

Look cool while you get fit! A combination of dark and uplifting colors of vibrant orange that makes it very natural and stylish in a way that feels comfortable. The lively gold and bright yellows add extra energy to these, high-quality yoga pants that are sure to get you noticed. Try out the different Filters for completely different color effects to make yours a truly one-of-a-kind pair!"

I alose found that the tags maybe work quite well for this design but with some small changes!

“modern abstract original painting” “trendy artistic design” “golden yellow” “bold black” “cool” “stylish original art”
“artsy” “liquid” “geometric” “artwork”




This is the description for it!

A Modern, Cool design meets traditional style with this eye-catching bag featuring an abstract liquid pattern in shiny gold and silver colors. The lively gold and bright yellows add extra energy to this, high-quality crossbody bag that is sure to get you noticed. An Artwork Describing how an uplifting idea can conquer anything in its way! Try out the different Filters for completely different color effects to make you a true one-of-a-kind stylish bag
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:18:52 AM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Elazart wrote:
Hi, I'm currently struggling with how I can develop my store. I've got an Abstract Artwork store where the most common tags that I use are:

"artwork" "painting "...colors..." "liquid art" "geometric" "abstract art" "cool art" "original art" and 2 more specific tags like shiny and stars.

I still don't get any views and wonder if the tags are the problem?

My typical Description goes like this: Original abstract artwork with the colors of .....

Or is the problem just that I've got too a few products, only got 135 products at my store so that might be the solution to get exposure?

Please have a look at my store and tell me what you think!

https://www.zazzle.com/store/elazart/

Read and practice this: https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000373127-Title-Description-Tagging-Best-Practices

You need to be going much further with your titles, descriptions, and tags.

I suggest you start by writing down all the keywords relevant to the design. The most important ones belong in your title. The description incorporates more of them. How to discover those keywords?

Let's look at this example:

https://www.zazzle.com/golden_splash_case_mate_iphone_case-179655245867881300

What does it represent? Or is it non-representational? What does it express? What is the color scheme? I see shades of orange, red, brown, pale yellow - in other words, 'warm colors' <- use that.

What else do we see - what are the forms used?

I see a chaotic tangle of wires. A splash of dark red. Metallic qualities. Something pale and ghostly. Now: What do you see?

Your description should tell search engines what potential buyers would see, if they could see it.

This (your description): An abstract golden splash, with some glittering sparkles and a black shade. - doesn't actually say much.

Who is the audience for this work? Why would they want this work on this product? What terms are they likely to use when searching for something like this?

You have to try to get inside the head of a potential buyer. Understanding what appeals to the target audience - and why - isn't always easy, but it's essential when you're trying to sell something to a niche group of buyers; something in this case that isn't common and immediately recognizable to a broader audience.

With abstract works, they're perhaps more likely going to be using keywords in their searches that describe the genre, colors, a feeling. Maybe forms or shapes within the works. Possibly the methods by which the work was created.

Answering the questions above should aid you in discovering keywords and developing a description.

As for your tags, I don't agree with those who say repetition of terms within tags "adds weight". Adding weight through repetition comes from spreading it across the title, description, and tags. I try to avoid repeating keywords within the tags, as it becomes spammy. In your tags for this work, I see the word 'art' four times. It's evidence that you need to spend some more time coming up with keywords - your problem shouldn't be 'what to use besides the word 'art'. It should be "I've got all these keywords - too many to fit within my 10 tags." So then you have to figure out which ones can be paired in short phrases (five words or less.) If you end up with several that can be paired with the word 'art', choose one - the one least likely to stand on its own in relevance to your work. Use the rest by themselves. You can also use variations - artsy, artistry.

I could write your title, description, and tags for this work. But I'm not going to do that. The reason being, I think you need to learn how to go through the process of discovering keywords, and you'll get more out of this if you think long and hard on the questions I posed above, than you would if I simply supplied you with suggested replacements for them.

Last thing: Are you famous? If not, drop "elazart" from your tags. It only belongs there if people you don't know personally are likely to nonetheless know that name, and search on it. Otherwise, it's a waste of a tag.

And yes, I still need to work on applying everything I've said above to my own situation, and I need to clean up my own mistakes. I'm trying to help you avoid repeating those same mistakes.


Great feedback! One question when I manage to get good descriptions and tags for all my products, do I really need over 1000s products to start getting steady sales? I've read that 1000-3000 products are where stuff starts to happen.
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 11:47:39 AM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I am just going to throw you a list of some common keywords for abstract art which is the most challenging and hardest to describe of all.

modern
contemporary
edgy
decorative
concept art
minimalist
dramatic
creative
compelling
ornate
elaborate
quirky
artsy
graphic
imaginative
bizarre
futuristic


I have a list of words like this taped to the wall next to where I work for times when I am having brain fog to give myself a kick start.

obviously I don't use them all at once and I try to work them into phrases like

cool colorful modern concept art,
dramatic imaginative abstract design,

etc... you get the idea.



Good list Shelli! I use a few myself, but I'm going to take the rest of these too! Idea


Hope they help! Smile

regarding your question for Fuzzy, I'm not him but I will give my opinion for what it is worth.

I think if you are heavily promoting your own designs and/or have your own website you might be fortunate enough to get steady sales without 1000+ products but if you are relying on the Zazzle MP for most of your exposure 1000 or less is such a small % in the grand scheme of hundreds of thousands of designers and millions of products. So the more you have the more chance you have.

Also taking into account that the top spots in searches are very hard to break into without a sales history on a specific product/design. They are dominated by what sells and most of those are well established designers who have been here.

Self promotion and lots of choices of great designs can help claw your way in...

Best wishes.

Eta: one more thing to encourage you, I have started to realize more steady sales and I have 2 stores with a total of less than 10,000 (around 6000) products, so you don't have to have over 10 thousand to see sales but I didn't see many sales until I got a couple thousand products made.

Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 12:10:22 PM
Elazart wrote:


Great feedback! One question when I manage to get good descriptions and tags for all my products, do I really need over 1000s products to start getting steady sales? I've read that 1000-3000 products are where stuff starts to happen.



It isn't that you need that number of products. It's that the time it takes you to make that many products teaches you about what works on Zazzle and what doesn't.
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 12:15:11 PM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
Elazart wrote:


Great feedback! One question when I manage to get good descriptions and tags for all my products, do I really need over 1000s products to start getting steady sales? I've read that 1000-3000 products are where stuff starts to happen.



It isn't that you need that number of products. It's that the time it takes you to make that many products teaches you about what works on Zazzle and what doesn't.


if you make them one by one and not using the quick create tool... you can crank out 1000 products in a few weeks with QC and not learn anything.
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 1:16:11 PM
Elazart wrote:
One question when I manage to get good descriptions and tags for all my products, do I really need over 1000s products to start getting steady sales? I've read that 1000-3000 products are where stuff starts to happen.

The number of products you need to start getting steady sales is somewhere between 1 and 'x', where 'x' = the number of products you have when you start getting steady sales. Grin

In other words, there's no set number. I've been here since December 2013, and I've never had steady sales, despite having nearly 15,000 products at one point. I only have around 1,000 now.

Abstract art can be especially hard to sell. My repeat sellers are not my abstract art, but my symbolic art. This is because people usually buy things that they can relate to some part of their home or professional life, their likes, hobbies. Which is why I've steered you toward things like the emotions or feelings expressed by your art when thinking about titles/descriptions/tags - it's what makes the work more accessible to potential buyers.

Zazzle's marketplace is geared more toward a particular aesthetic that appeals to millennial women. So it's essential that your work be promoted externally, either by you or affiliates who think they can earn referrals by promoting it.

Them's the cold, hard facts. Some people are able to generate steady sales and find success, but like most new businesses, they're the exception, not the rule.

But don't get discouraged by that. As I've told others, you won't know what your adventure here will become / what you're capable of achieving, unless you stick around long enough and put in the work to find out.

My Zazzle adventure started as an experiment that I expected to fail. It was more successful than I envisioned, but that's honestly not saying much, since I'm still just a Basic Pro, and ascending to the next level doesn't really look achievable to me. Even so, I press on, and will continue to do so until there's clearly nowhere left to go with it.
Posted: Wednesday, August 07, 2019 2:33:01 PM
Quote:
Abstract art can be especially hard to sell. My repeat sellers are not my abstract art, but my symbolic art. This is because people usually buy things that they can relate to some part of their home or professional life, their likes, hobbies. Which is why I've steered you toward things like the emotions or feelings expressed by your art when thinking about titles/descriptions/tags - it's what makes the work more accessible to potential buyers.


unfortunately I have also found out this is true and it is sad since abstract art is one of my biggest passions.

here is a little something that has had limited success for me here at Zazzle... (I have no success at my other PODs with any type of art, and not for lack of trying)

But here at Z I have seen some sales by using my abstract art as backgrounds for monogram gifts and gifts with quotes, also high top sneakers, leggings, socks and pillows. There are many other products that abstract art looks great on like paperweights and trinket trays,candy tins and all over tote bags, but I haven't sold many with abstract art on them.

I have other styles of art and designs that generate most of my sales so I am not depending on the abstract to be my main stay. But if abstract is your only style you may have to think outside the box to make it more saleable.


Adding: men's ties also look great with abstract art but I don't sell many... yet...

Posted: Friday, August 09, 2019 4:11:44 AM
Anyone here knows how often the Z rank updates?
Posted: Friday, August 09, 2019 6:34:50 AM
Elazart wrote:
Anyone here knows how often the Z rank updates?

I've yet to discover a single soul here who understands a thing about zRank. Not a thing.
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 5:59:33 AM
BWAAAAAAAAH! I changed the titles and descriptions then my Zazzle rank dropped down to 4 from a 5... Zazzle should make some sort of tool to identify descriptions and titles and tags that are much alike so that we know what to fix...Tags included.

How long does it take to get any views on my products after I changed that tagging and descriptions? I still got a lot to do but WHHAA This takes time. I want to get sales now!

I opened a Pinterest account some days ago, got something around 600 followers but no one clicks on the products that I post I got views though...
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 7:10:41 AM
Elazart wrote:
I changed the titles and descriptions then my Zazzle rank dropped down to 4 from a 5

Were those absolutely the only changes you made? Did you add any products?
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 7:12:26 AM
With regard to zRank, it would be so much more helpful to get a warning before rank drops of exactly what needs to be addressed.

Otherwise it's just discouragement that does nothing to help us improve.
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 11:10:03 AM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
With regard to zRank, it would be so much more helpful to get a warning before rank drops of exactly what needs to be addressed.

Otherwise it's just discouragement that does nothing to help us improve.


right!

any clarification on the zRank mystery would be welcome.

As it stands, all it does is scare you away from trying to make any changes for fear of losing ground


@Elazart
As long as you are a 4 or above you will still show up in searches. I have a store that has never been above 4 and gets sales.

keep promoting!
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:12:22 PM
I've learned the trick for dealing with zRank: ignore it.
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:22:01 PM
YES, I DID IT! IM BACK to 5 !! Grin Grin Grin

Not sure if I got a hang of this yet but I think Different titles and different descriptions and tags on each product change the Z rank. Even if the design is the same but on a different theme, the more unique descriptions, and tagging and titles the better, you can change the order of phrases and replace keywords.

I found this very useful:

https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000373127

Think I'm gonna change on my products descriptions and tagging since I've got a smaller amount of products its easier for me to learn how this works. The thing about Z rank is clear, quality, not quantity...
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:28:01 PM
Elazart wrote:
YES I DID IT! IM BACK to 5 !! Grin Grin Grin


you are teetering on the edge between 4 and 5 right now so don't be surprised if you go back and forth for a while. At the moment I would just focus on creating products with great metadata and promoting them. You can safely stay above a 4 for quite a while before you drop to the edge between 3 and 4. the difference between a 4 and 5 is unnoticable to me... I have one store at each and can tell no difference in sales or searches.
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:30:25 PM
The difference between a 3 and 4 is explained here by Zazzle

Quote:
Why does my zRank matter?

As Zazzle's Designer community continues to grow, we are constantly looking for ways to improve our customers' experience and highlight the best stores suited to them. zRank gives us a way to showcase those stores that have put a lot of time and effort into creating a rich and engaging user experience.
There are also a few added benefits* for your store on Zazzle:

Your store will appear, and have preference, as a suggested search result when searching.
Your store will appear, and have preference, in the Designer Store search Filter - the links which appear in the left-hand navigation bar for narrowing results in marketplace search.

*Your store must have a zRank of 4 or above to have these features enabled


you can find the above text by clicking on the words zRank next ro your number.
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:36:23 PM


Created these! Think I made a good work on the description but not sure about the tagging?




Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:40:04 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Elazart wrote:
YES I DID IT! IM BACK to 5 !! Grin Grin Grin


you are teetering on the edge between 4 and 5 right now so don't be surprised if you go back and forth for a while. At the moment I would just focus on creating products with great metadata and promoting them. You can safely stay above a 4 for quite a while before you drop to the edge between 3 and 4. the difference between a 4 and 5 is unnoticable to me... I have one store at each and can tell no difference in sales or searches.



How do I promote my products on Pinterest? Should I use ads? How much does it cost to market 1 sale?
Posted: Saturday, August 10, 2019 12:52:32 PM
Elazart wrote:
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Elazart wrote:
YES I DID IT! IM BACK to 5 !! Grin Grin Grin


you are teetering on the edge between 4 and 5 right now so don't be surprised if you go back and forth for a while. At the moment I would just focus on creating products with great metadata and promoting them. You can safely stay above a 4 for quite a while before you drop to the edge between 3 and 4. the difference between a 4 and 5 is unnoticable to me... I have one store at each and can tell no difference in sales or searches.



How do I promote my products on Pinterest? Should I use ads? How much does it cost to market 1 sale?


I never pay for ads, just create some boards and pin to them as often as you can.

you can also check into @HightonRidley's Nifty tools for Promoting on Pinterest, Facebook and more in the Zazzle tools forum here.

he has some great free options, I do pay for the subscription to nifty and it has paid off for me.

Keep in mind that sales do not come overnight to very many Zazzle designers. be patient and keep working on your products and promoting and sales should follow.
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