Zazzle: my designs and copyrights are not yours to give away 11 pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:03:37 AM
igiftcenter wrote:


As far as I can tell this program is still in beta, is not being advertised to the outside world, and I'm pretty certain someone from Z has read this post or has been following it and keeping quiet.... till they can formulate a response or make adjustments to this program before it is out of beta.
In fact it's entirely possible that after more thought this program may never come out of beta, possibly.

I'm hoping there will be a response from Z on Monday and I'm very certain Z is not going to jeopardize the relationship or legal standing with their major brands. This is still a business.

Calm your nerves and see what Z has to say before you start doing drastic things.

Just my 2 cents.


I agree, there is still time to wait for zazzle to respond. But I have serious doubts, that this is going away. Too many components are geared towards a whole new business plan with a strong emphasis on interactive use and sadly as little copyright hassle as possible.

It is geared towards CC0 content.

Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:03:40 AM
Thanks vivendulies and igiftcenter for the responses and explanations :-)
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:12:30 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
I did. I used two account and collaborated on a product of a third. I did it with a Disney postcard. It's a work in progress. Smile

Of course, you can take a Disney product and collaborate with someone to get a customized PERSONAL product for OWN purchase. Tell me when you've managed to use that Disney Design for downloading or for selling the derivative design you and your second account created in collaboration.

In regard to the other stuff I'm not replying anymore, makes no sense...
wir reden aneinander vorbei.

Working now, juicy sales this weekend ;-)


Nein wir reden nicht aneinander vorbei. (for non German speaker: to talk at cross purposes)

We disagree on one single issue, that is transferable and site-purpose vs each collaborator.

It's math. Or the English question about that infamous comma, where there are people in the water to be saved. I can never remember when some drown and when all are saved.

You say this phrase includes all content, when I don't see why it would. I'm perfectly happy to let it stand there.

Smile



Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:36:54 AM
Not my business to tell anyone what they have to do, but, Ladies and Gentlemen, I say it again: don't do hasty, irreversible decisions you may regret in the near future.

@Zazzle, how's about reassuring the community and postponing the terms changes to the end of January, so we all, you included, can concentrate on the coming holidays and continue that whole debate afterwards?

As for my part, I'm out of these discussions. I feel like Don Quixote fighting windmills.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:38:57 AM
Is the G+ Zazzle group still around or is there another place to share possibly pertinent information off of the forum?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:44:39 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
Not my business to tell anyone what they have to do, but, Ladies and Gentlemen, I say it again: don't do hasty, irreversible decisions you may regret in the near future.

@Zazzle, how's about reassuring the community and postponing the terms changes to the end of January, so we all, you included, can concentrate on the coming holidays and continue that whole debate afterwards?

As for my part, I'm out of these discussions. I feel like Don Quixote fighting windmills.


To January? Not good. Then we do not know anything specific for a long time. I no longer have the motivation to work on Zazzle now. Should I not be able to do anything for months?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:47:13 AM
PetsDreamlands wrote:

As for my part, I'm out of these discussions. I feel like Don Quixote fighting windmills.


I know you want to stress the difference of the written terms and how they are exercised in the end and you quit discussing it with me. I think you are forgetting that there is a fundamental change happening and that your experience as to the discrepancies of the written word and common practice no longer is applicable.

You can disagree on that part, too. And I think it should be said here again. I hope I interpret your reaction correctly and pick the correct subtext in this from a different discussion, where we disagreed on parts of the legalese. Your followed up with a lecture in legalese.

Grin
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 2:49:59 AM
ElizabethAnnRoy wrote:
Is the G+ Zazzle group still around or is there another place to share possibly pertinent information off of the forum?

G+ no longer exists, doesn't it?
Facebook group POD talk?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 3:07:57 AM
This is separate from what Elizabeth is posting about.

Okay I need to go to bed so hopefully I can ask my question sensibly. I will ask that nobody uses any of our images for testing. There are some still unhidden/undeleted. I will say that it was my understanding that all Z was going to do tonight was freeze our royalties. I didn't expect the new stuff covered by the new TOS to be implemented until 11/22 and I expected Zazzle's response/countering of the raised issues to happen prior to that. I am thinking that maybe they strung us along until the new features could be implemented with access to our designs. Maybe my tired brain is creating a comspiracy theory.

Anyhow, here is my attempt to ask my question. Okay, theoretically, there are two new features. 1. Create that allows people to uses elements and download designs. 2.Elements of Create that have been added to the design tool that allow people to add them to our designs but not download . This costs us the royalty carve out and supposedly doesn't take effect until 11/22 but it is functional now. This transfers an unlimited license to the people using it. Am I right so far?

So here is my question. Those of you who have tested it and ended up with a design in your saved images that has your name on it and no longer has the original designers name on it. Can you now take that image over to the downloadable Create tool and download a copy?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 3:09:59 AM
You may remember about month ago I wrote, after they introduced that RIDICULOUS Designer Icon in the Customizer:

"...It looks like further hiding the designer.
Then probably the designer's name will disappear from the product page and will be only visible after clicking the Customize button. Since most of the products is already hidden from the outside world..." https://forum.zazzle.com/feedback/designer_attribution_in_the_design_tool_official?m=1673808#1673808

Now it's clear. Shady practices. Since then I stopped to give any feedback and to create products, there are other sites to work on.

Either they'll allow us to OPT OUT or we'll have to delete our stores. There is no other way, except for those who love to give their artworks and time away for free.

If I'd like to give my stuff on Canva like site or some other free pics site, I would be there.

The fact that ZAZZLE IS NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE FORUMS, and not giving the clear information, from the source, is simply SHOCKING.

Yet they don't forget to send us advertising spam or to write "passing this onto our team".

I need to stop this post now, because it would hurt Z a lot.;)
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 3:16:11 AM
MarBethHomeDecor wrote:

Anyhow, here is my attempt to ask my question. Okay, theoretically, there are two new features. 1. Create that allows people to uses elements and download designs. 2.Elements of Create that have been added to the design tool that allow people to add them to our designs but not download . This costs us the royalty carve out and supposedly doesn't take effect until 11/22 but it is functional now. This transfers an unlimited license to the people using it. Am I right so far?

So here is my question. Those of you who have tested it and ended up with a design in your saved images that has your name on it and no longer has the original designers name on it. Can you now take that image over to the downloadable Create tool and download a copy?


Doubtful it is appreciated by zazzle.

Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS WHO ARE NOT THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR HEREBY AGREE THAT THEY WILL NOT UPLOAD THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT TO THE SITE AS A PUBLIC PRODUCT, AND THAT DOING SO COULD BE GROUNDS FOR ZAZZLE, IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION, TO DELETE SUCH PRODUCT AND/OR TAKE OTHER ACTION UP TO AND INCLUDING DELETION OF SUCH COLLABORATOR’S ZAZZLE ACCOUNT.


This part talks about the other collaborators: they can't. It doesn't include the initiator, which implies he can. But honestly I don't have an opinion on that.
???


Also:
Quote:

3.1.19. upload and/or exploit any other User's Content (including Collaborative Content, as applicable), on the Site or elsewhere, for use by others; or

3.1.20. harvest or otherwise collect information about Users, including names and email addresses, without their consent.


Zazzle is contradictng themselves here. But given that zazzle gives weight to
Quote:
EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE.


Zazzle speaks loudly about extending extensive rights pretty much unrestricted in the collaboration section.

Quote:
6.1.5.2. Collaborators may create private (i.e., for purchase by the Collaborator, not posted for sale on the Site) Products featuring the Collaborative Content.

But
NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE
So Worldwide but not on zazzle.

Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 3:22:31 AM
vivendulies wrote:
ElizabethAnnRoy wrote:
Is the G+ Zazzle group still around or is there another place to share possibly pertinent information off of the forum?

G+ no longer exists, doesn't it?
Facebook group POD talk?


The last I knew, those who signed up on G+ as a business still have G+ accounts. G+ was only discontinued for those with personal accounts. I signed as a business, but I haven't used it in ages.

Heading over to FB.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:21:53 AM
vivendulies wrote:
MarBethHomeDecor wrote:

Anyhow, here is my attempt to ask my question. Okay, theoretically, there are two new features. 1. Create that allows people to uses elements and download designs. 2.Elements of Create that have been added to the design tool that allow people to add them to our designs but not download . This costs us the royalty carve out and supposedly doesn't take effect until 11/22 but it is functional now. This transfers an unlimited license to the people using it. Am I right so far?

So here is my question. Those of you who have tested it and ended up with a design in your saved images that has your name on it and no longer has the original designers name on it. Can you now take that image over to the downloadable Create tool and download a copy?


Doubtful it is appreciated by zazzle.

Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS WHO ARE NOT THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR HEREBY AGREE THAT THEY WILL NOT UPLOAD THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT TO THE SITE AS A PUBLIC PRODUCT, AND THAT DOING SO COULD BE GROUNDS FOR ZAZZLE, IN ITS SOLE DISCRETION, TO DELETE SUCH PRODUCT AND/OR TAKE OTHER ACTION UP TO AND INCLUDING DELETION OF SUCH COLLABORATOR’S ZAZZLE ACCOUNT.


This part talks about the other collaborators: they can't. It doesn't include the initiator, which implies he can. But honestly I don't have an opinion on that.
???


Also:
Quote:

3.1.19. upload and/or exploit any other User's Content (including Collaborative Content, as applicable), on the Site or elsewhere, for use by others; or

3.1.20. harvest or otherwise collect information about Users, including names and email addresses, without their consent.


Zazzle is contradictng themselves here. But given that zazzle gives weight to
Quote:
EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE.


Zazzle speaks loudly about extending extensive rights pretty much unrestricted in the collaboration section.

Quote:
6.1.5.2. Collaborators may create private (i.e., for purchase by the Collaborator, not posted for sale on the Site) Products featuring the Collaborative Content.

But
NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE
So Worldwide but not on zazzle.



Okay, I get that it is not a good idea to test it but I just wondered if it was possible for those who might come in and do a hit and run. I am sorry to bring up the writing site so much but the boldest hit and run just happened. I know black hatters means people that cram SEO and backlinks for Google. However, on the writing site, it is for anyone who places an order, tries to be allowed to get a refund, and steals the article. Clients get a revision and a rejection rating. If their rating is high, no one writes for them. A new client came in, created a team, put up $50 articles 10 at a time, and had put up 50 in two weeks. After the first week, Elizabeth did one. He requested two nonsense revisions. I looked at his 100% revision rate and we posted in the forum. Apparently, his MO was then to tell the author that he didn't want to cause a high rejection rate and could they just drop the article. Several authors had. Well, he was exposed, Elizabeth got paid, and he was gone.

So that is why I was asking if a design could be taken to the downloadable Create tool but testing it is not a good idea. Anyhow, design pirates are going to know lots of ways to steal.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:28:41 AM
Important to note and reminder:

As far as I can tell this program is still in beta, is not being advertised to the outside world, and I'm pretty certain someone from Z has read this post or has been following it and keeping quiet.... till they can formulate a response or make adjustments to this program before it is out of beta.

In fact it's entirely possible that after more thought this program may never come out of beta, possibly.

Keep cool. We'll hear from Zazzle on Monday I'm sure.

Just a reminder to be patient and don't do anything drastic (like removing stores etc.)

(I deleted my other post so i can be more clear)
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:36:47 AM

At the moment create tool designer are vetted. So I don't think this is a threat. I don't judge the zazzle forum community as the type that would exploit the current situation. When I opened shellis product I didn't follow through with the invite. I just opened the design in the MP designer tool and when I wanted to deleted click a tat above the checkbox and was surprised that shellis name was gone and instead I was named as the creator.

I have already deleted shellis product. I made the collaboration test with three of my own accounts, only with one am I actually linked to my physical address. The other two are not exactly anonymous. It is fairly easy to research my physical address so I won't do any foolish testing with those either.

Besides I learned what I needed to know and the screenshots tell pretty much the story the rest is in the experience with zazzle in the past year an in the terms.

As for the internet in general, we all know that it is a wild west and "street mugging" is a frequent occasion, whether it is a Nigerian on fiver who sells 4300 illegal derivatives for $35 or a Asian bot fleecing google image.

It is what it is.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:37:33 AM
MarBethHomeDecor wrote:
This is separate from what Elizabeth is posting about.

Okay I need to go to bed so hopefully I can ask my question sensibly. I will ask that nobody uses any of our images for testing. There are some still unhidden/undeleted. I will say that it was my understanding that all Z was going to do tonight was freeze our royalties. I didn't expect the new stuff covered by the new TOS to be implemented until 11/22 and I expected Zazzle's response/countering of the raised issues to happen prior to that. I am thinking that maybe they strung us along until the new features could be implemented with access to our designs. Maybe my tired brain is creating a comspiracy theory.

Anyhow, here is my attempt to ask my question. Okay, theoretically, there are two new features. 1. Create that allows people to uses elements and download designs. 2.Elements of Create that have been added to the design tool that allow people to add them to our designs but not download . This costs us the royalty carve out and supposedly doesn't take effect until 11/22 but it is functional now. This transfers an unlimited license to the people using it. Am I right so far?

So here is my question. Those of you who have tested it and ended up with a design in your saved images that has your name on it and no longer has the original designers name on it. Can you now take that image over to the downloadable Create tool and download a copy?

When I tried it, it didn't go to my saved images, but saved designs just like that also happens when I customize somebody elses product, and the only thing I could do with it was purchase that product. Also, it did say :"designed by you", but that also always happened when I just customized somebody elses product.
So as far as these things concerned, for me it was exactly the same as just customizing somebody else product
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 5:54:46 AM
Funcards wrote:
MarBethHomeDecor wrote:
This is separate from what Elizabeth is posting about.

Okay I need to go to bed so hopefully I can ask my question sensibly. I will ask that nobody uses any of our images for testing. There are some still unhidden/undeleted. I will say that it was my understanding that all Z was going to do tonight was freeze our royalties. I didn't expect the new stuff covered by the new TOS to be implemented until 11/22 and I expected Zazzle's response/countering of the raised issues to happen prior to that. I am thinking that maybe they strung us along until the new features could be implemented with access to our designs. Maybe my tired brain is creating a comspiracy theory.

Anyhow, here is my attempt to ask my question. Okay, theoretically, there are two new features. 1. Create that allows people to uses elements and download designs. 2.Elements of Create that have been added to the design tool that allow people to add them to our designs but not download . This costs us the royalty carve out and supposedly doesn't take effect until 11/22 but it is functional now. This transfers an unlimited license to the people using it. Am I right so far?

So here is my question. Those of you who have tested it and ended up with a design in your saved images that has your name on it and no longer has the original designers name on it. Can you now take that image over to the downloadable Create tool and download a copy?

When I tried it, it didn't go to my saved images, but saved designs just like that also happens when I customize somebody elses product, and the only thing I could do with it was purchase that product. Also, it did say :"designed by you", but that also always happened when I just customized somebody elses product.
So as far as these things concerned, for me it was exactly the same as just customizing somebody else product


And I guess that is good news for now... but I am having a very hard time trusting this company anymore

Everybody has to decide for themselves what is best for them to do.

Of course I would love to hear from Z on Monday (or today or really yesterday) but we have been expecting answers for two weeks now and all we got was this... more questions still no answers still no opt outs.

For me for now hiding is the answer. If I can’t opt out by Nov 22 I will be down to only generic designs that I don’t care about and decide then if I still want to even stay at all.

I also want to add that my concern is and has been more about what happens after 11/22 when logging in is the equivalent of agreeing to all the new changes and rights giveaways.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:10:25 AM
What really has me puzzled is how Zazzle can set terms as to how an artwork becomes someone's property and assign a person as copyright holder. What I am trying to say, and not saying it well. Is this; Their are copyright laws in place. You can't take someone else's work, make a few changes and call it your own. That is not Zazzles rules, that is America's copyright law. How can Zazzle override the law of the land just by saying so in their TOS. I can't take a Van Gogh painting add a pretty little flower and call it my own, especially if that pretty little flower is also someone else's work. How can Zazzle give someone the right to add things to copyrighted art and claim it?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:17:37 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
What really has me puzzled is how Zazzle can set terms as to how an artwork becomes someone's property and assign a person as copyright holder. What I am trying to say, and not saying it well. Is this; Their are copyright laws in place. You can't take someone else's work, make a few changes and call it your own. That is not Zazzles rules, that is America's copyright law. How can Zazzle override the law of the land just by saying so in their TOS. I can't take a Van Gogh painting add a pretty little flower and call it my own, especially if that pretty little flower is also someone else's work. How can Zazzle give someone the right to add things to copyrighted art and claim it?


You don't loose your copyrights. You agree to terms that drastically changes what others can do with your work and what you can do about it. It is fairly common in the music and book industry with large houses. They usually have very unfavorable terms.

The beatles founded the apple label because they wanted the control of their music rights back.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:25:58 AM
vivendulies wrote:
randysgrandma wrote:
What really has me puzzled is how Zazzle can set terms as to how an artwork becomes someone's property and assign a person as copyright holder. What I am trying to say, and not saying it well. Is this; Their are copyright laws in place. You can't take someone else's work, make a few changes and call it your own. That is not Zazzles rules, that is America's copyright law. How can Zazzle override the law of the land just by saying so in their TOS. I can't take a Van Gogh painting add a pretty little flower and call it my own, especially if that pretty little flower is also someone else's work. How can Zazzle give someone the right to add things to copyrighted art and claim it?


You don't loose your copyrights. You agree to terms that drastically changes what others can do with your work and what you can do about it. It is fairly common in the music and book industry with large houses. They usually have very unfavorable terms.

The beatles founded the apple label because they wanted the control of their music rights back.


I am not saying I lose my copyright to the original design, but I am saying that to allow someone else to use my art and by adding an element, call it their own is just not allowed by copyright law. So how can Zazzle grant that right to anyone?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:32:27 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
randysgrandma wrote:
What really has me puzzled is how Zazzle can set terms as to how an artwork becomes someone's property and assign a person as copyright holder. What I am trying to say, and not saying it well. Is this; Their are copyright laws in place. You can't take someone else's work, make a few changes and call it your own. That is not Zazzles rules, that is America's copyright law. How can Zazzle override the law of the land just by saying so in their TOS. I can't take a Van Gogh painting add a pretty little flower and call it my own, especially if that pretty little flower is also someone else's work. How can Zazzle give someone the right to add things to copyrighted art and claim it?


You don't loose your copyrights. You agree to terms that drastically changes what others can do with your work and what you can do about it. It is fairly common in the music and book industry with large houses. They usually have very unfavorable terms.

The beatles founded the apple label because they wanted the control of their music rights back.


I am not saying I lose my copyright to the original design, but I am saying that to allow someone else to use my art and by adding an element, call it their own is just not allowed by copyright law. So how can Zazzle grant that right to anyone?


They can't unless we agree and as I see it that is what the new terms are about on 11/22. This has been my main concern all along.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:38:14 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
randysgrandma wrote:
What really has me puzzled is how Zazzle can set terms as to how an artwork becomes someone's property and assign a person as copyright holder. What I am trying to say, and not saying it well. Is this; Their are copyright laws in place. You can't take someone else's work, make a few changes and call it your own. That is not Zazzles rules, that is America's copyright law. How can Zazzle override the law of the land just by saying so in their TOS. I can't take a Van Gogh painting add a pretty little flower and call it my own, especially if that pretty little flower is also someone else's work. How can Zazzle give someone the right to add things to copyrighted art and claim it?


You don't loose your copyrights. You agree to terms that drastically changes what others can do with your work and what you can do about it. It is fairly common in the music and book industry with large houses. They usually have very unfavorable terms.

The beatles founded the apple label because they wanted the control of their music rights back.


I am not saying I lose my copyright to the original design, but I am saying that to allow someone else to use my art and by adding an element, call it their own is just not allowed by copyright law. So how can Zazzle grant that right to anyone?


Look up the paragraph for collaboration in US copyright law.
In general you can authorize others to act on your behalf, which is what you do by signing any POD service contract as a designer.

You agreed to a transferable license, which is why zazzle could start their venture on amazon or why zazzle can hand over your design to manufacturers. It also means zazzle can enter you in a collaboration without your knowledge as collaborator incognito and not as the initiator and you agree for zazzle to pass on extensive rights on your behalf.

Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:46:02 AM
So in essence, any design we have ever put on Zazzle has become the property of Zazzle and it has always been that way? Not anything new, but has now been verified by the new TOS?
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:52:47 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
So in essence, any design we have ever put on Zazzle has become the property of Zazzle and it has always been that way? Not anything new, but has now been verified by the new TOS?


There is such a thing as a habitual contract. If something is done a certain way for years it becomes part of the contract, even if it is contradicted in the written contract. So ruled often in court. Before transferable was only applied to manufacturer and ad agencies. Then it was applied to 3rd party marketplaces like amazon.

Only because there is an established habit doesn't mean it can't change over time without the need to change the written terms.

With a drastic change as it is happening now, you need the change in the terms and the habitual changes to overwrite the habitual contract and that is what is happening.

Transferable is changing in the way it is applied.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:52:55 AM
igiftcenter wrote:


Important to note:

As far as I can tell this program is still in beta, is not being advertised to the outside world, and I'm pretty certain someone from Z has read this post or has been following it and keeping quiet.... till they can formulate a response or make adjustments to this program before it is out of beta.

In fact it's entirely possible that after more thought this program may never come out of beta, possibly.

I'm hoping there will be a response from Z on Monday and I'm very certain Z is not going to jeopardize the relationship or legal standing with their major brands. This is still a business.

Calm your nerves and see what Z has to say before you start doing drastic things.

Just my 2 cents.


Even if it is in Beta, customers have access to it and can make use of it. I checked that several times while logged out.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 6:57:48 AM


Whether in the details it is all lawful and impenetrable is beyond me. I'm a layman, an artist and designer not a lawyer. But I have no interest to drag anybody into court over any of this anyway. I want to know if zazzle pulls back or if I have to pack my things, close this account or just reduce the account to the essentially public domain and generic stuff.

Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 7:02:38 AM
vivendulies wrote:


Whether in the details it is all lawful and impenetrable is beyond me. I'm a layman, an artist and designer not a lawyer. But I have no interest to drag anybody into court over any of this anyway. I want to know if zazzle pulls back or if I have to pack my things, close this account or just reduce the account to the essentially public domain and generic stuff.



This is where I am, as of now I am in reducing mode. I will wait to see what, if anything, changes and then decide what to do on 11/22.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 7:05:57 AM
vivendulies wrote:
igiftcenter wrote:


As far as I can tell this program is still in beta, is not being advertised to the outside world, and I'm pretty certain someone from Z has read this post or has been following it and keeping quiet.... till they can formulate a response or make adjustments to this program before it is out of beta.
In fact it's entirely possible that after more thought this program may never come out of beta, possibly.

I'm hoping there will be a response from Z on Monday and I'm very certain Z is not going to jeopardize the relationship or legal standing with their major brands. This is still a business.

Calm your nerves and see what Z has to say before you start doing drastic things.

Just my 2 cents.


I agree, there is still time to wait for zazzle to respond. But I have serious doubts, that this is going away. Too many components are geared towards a whole new business plan with a strong emphasis on interactive use and sadly as little copyright hassle as possible.

It is geared towards CC0 content.



I can't see it going away either... you don't draw up extensive new legal terms and publicly announce them for no reason. If this wasn't already a concrete plan, it wouldn't be live right now. Beta or not.


disclaimer: everybody has to decide for themselves what is the best thing for them to do.
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 7:09:47 AM
Gina ©gleem wrote:

Even if it is in Beta, customers have access to it and can make use of it. I checked that several times while logged out.


And thereby creating a legal nightmare for those who don't hide just now, delete later some of it or hide in the hopes it'll change one day long term and stay on.

I feel like a fawn in the headlights. Run and be run over or stay and be run over and any decision can be fatal or at least hurtful. Christmas season is starting. It is the worst time to hide products. Not hiding creates the possibility that they end up in collaboration and deleting them or hiding them later has no effect, the deed is done ... the collaboration is in progress.

It might mean closing later is the only option before those terms take in effect and once you do zazzle can pull back and your store is gone, your store names available to others ... start from scratch do not collect acumulated good ratings, hiding protection for your sellers etc.

A fawn in the headlights
Sad

Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2019 7:13:36 AM
I'm currently testing things on another person's product. So far, I was able to invite a stranger (just a throwaway email address I have) and the stranger received the invite. She's currently helping to make a wreck of the designer's product. What ISN'T working is the chat feature. It has a delay that seems to extend into infinity.

I don't like what I'm seeing but will go only as far as halting my design activity until I get answers.

My dearest wish at the moment would be the ability to turn off the Customize button in batches, not having to land back on square one by having to redo my products. I'm not as keen on an opt-out ability because it's something I don't quite trust.
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