Two Questions 2 pages: [1] 2
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:24:09 PM
1. Have we lost the share function when looking at other designers product pages? When I hovered over the image on the product page there used to be a share option in the top left. I don't see it anymore.

Not the individual product page, but from the general product page.

2. The number of products in peoples stores and categories is not there for me anymore. Is this a glitch?


Note on Q1. - Being someone that promotes others works often, I hope that share function comes back. Having to open each individual product to promote it is so time consuming, I think I might consider it a waste of time.... I don't know yet... but that is how I feel at the moment...

Thanks

Josh

Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:52:19 PM
Josh B wrote:
1. Have we lost the share function when looking at other designers product pages? When I hovered over the image on the product page there used to be a share option in the top left. I don't see it anymore.

Not the individual product page, but from the general product page.

2. The number of products in peoples stores and categories is not there for me anymore. Is this a glitch?


Note on Q1. - Being someone that promotes others works often, I hope that share function comes back. Having to open each individual product to promote it is so time consuming, I think I might consider it a waste of time.... I don't know yet... but that is how I feel at the moment...

Thanks

Josh



There is currently a redesign in beta testing, so it might not come to pass. I already made a complaint.

As to open the product detail page, there is an upside to it. You give and get view counts and less products will be under threat of being hidden.

But I agree it is taking away convenience, where it shouldn't, and because it takes more time in consequence less will be shared. Les shared is less exposure and getting enough exposure to have regular sell is hard enough as it is.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:20:12 PM
1. You should be able to share a product from another designer's product page. Can you provide an example of a page that you are unable to share from?

2. Total product count has indeed been removed. That much was intentional. I'm still working on tracking down the reason for this, but there's a lot of other things on my plate right now.
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:34:02 PM
vivendulies wrote:
There is currently a redesign in beta testing, so it might not come to pass. I already made a complaint.
This is not entirely true.

We are currently in the process of updating some of the "profile pages" on our site, and this includes store pages. In the past week or so some changes were made that were obviously not tested thoroughly enough, and that led to some obvious bugs getting out into the wild. I am in the process of getting this fixed now.

But this is not a beta test, at least not in the "AB testing" kind of way. I wouldn't say that things are ever set in stone because I do think that we do a pretty good job of listening to feedback, but for now this is how we want things to appear.

The bugs will be fixed soon.
We do welcome your guys' feedback on the rest of the changes, including to the Collections page. Please remember to leave the feedback in the appropriate discussion thread so that we can collect it more easily.
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:47:24 PM
Scott wrote:
1. You should be able to share a product from another designer's product page. Can you provide an example of a page that you are unable to share from?


https://www.zazzle.com/store/girly_trend/products?qs=feeding%20supplies&dp=252166665500117684

https://www.zazzle.com/store/teti_bright/products

https://www.zazzle.com/store/serendipityts/products

Adding: I just checked a bunch of the zazzle stores I have book marked and I can't share off anyones product page.

Quote:

2. Total product count has indeed been removed. That much was intentional. I'm still working on tracking down the reason for this, but there's a lot of other things on my plate right now.


OK. It was something I just noticed and wondered if something was wrong on my end. I personally liked it from the promoting standpoint. ie. Does this designer have enough of "x" type of product for me to take the time to explore there store. It was useful for finding designs that don't show up in "newest" "popular" or on the best seller lists. It is not a loss that I can't live without. Be curious to know the reasoning, but don't stress about it on my account.

Thanks

Josh
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:07:11 PM
Oh, I see. Yeah, now you'll need to click into the product page before you can share it. It's a bit of extra work, but if you're choosy about the products that you promote then it might be worthwhile reviewing the design anyways. But I'm not sure exactly what your workflow looks like.

Thanks for the clarification.
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:14:45 PM
Scott wrote:
Oh, I see. Yeah, now you'll need to click into the product page before you can share it. It's a bit of extra work, but if you're choosy about the products that you promote then it might be worthwhile reviewing the design anyways. But I'm not sure exactly what your workflow looks like.

Thanks for the clarification.


So sad if it stays that way. I am choosy about what I promote. Hand choosing products is my preferred method of promoting. The time lost clicking each product and waiting for it to load and then to share... I might have to just use Niftty or some other promoting tool.

Removing that option to promote from the product page will greatly increase the amount of time it will take to selectively promote.

It would be a shame as I believe that most people have at least one of two great designs that deserve to be seen.

I hope other promoters chime in. This change, depending on how you promote, could/will add lots of time to your promoting efforts...

Thanks for the quick answers Scott. I personally hope you bring that feature back.

Josh
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:30:59 PM
Scott wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
There is currently a redesign in beta testing, so it might not come to pass. I already made a complaint.
This is not entirely true.

We are currently in the process of updating some of the "profile pages" on our site, and this includes store pages. In the past week or so some changes were made that were obviously not tested thoroughly enough, and that led to some obvious bugs getting out into the wild. I am in the process of getting this fixed now.

But this is not a beta test, at least not in the "AB testing" kind of way. I wouldn't say that things are ever set in stone because I do think that we do a pretty good job of listening to feedback, but for now this is how we want things to appear.

The bugs will be fixed soon.
We do welcome your guys' feedback on the rest of the changes, including to the Collections page. Please remember to leave the feedback in the appropriate discussion thread so that we can collect it more easily.


I gave my feedback bi-uniquely in the thread that I opened and don't need to repeat it here. Sorry, that a response from a fellow designer led me to the wrong conclusion about the AB testing.

I'm aware of your work in progress philosophy. In a dynamic and ever changing environment like the internet, it is the only possible way to work a site.

Grin


Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:34:17 PM
Josh B wrote:
Scott wrote:
Oh, I see. Yeah, now you'll need to click into the product page before you can share it. It's a bit of extra work, but if you're choosy about the products that you promote then it might be worthwhile reviewing the design anyways. But I'm not sure exactly what your workflow looks like.

Thanks for the clarification.


So sad if it stays that way. I am choosy about what I promote. Hand choosing products is my preferred method of promoting. The time lost clicking each product and waiting for it to load and then to share... I might have to just use Niftty or some other promoting tool.

Removing that option to promote from the product page will greatly increase the amount of time it will take to selectively promote.

It would be a shame as I believe that most people have at least one of two great designs that deserve to be seen.

I hope other promoters chime in. This change, depending on how you promote, could/will add lots of time to your promoting efforts...

Thanks for the quick answers Scott. I personally hope you bring that feature back.

Josh


I actually like to visit the product page to register a view and will even click the like button while I am there because these things help the designer every time. A promote is nice and has the potential to get a sale for them but a view is a right now thing that as Viv said helps keep that product from getting closer to being hidden. I don't know what benefit a like has for the designer but I like that it goes into my own collection so I can find it again easily.

There I chimed in but it might not be what you wanted to hear. Grin
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:52:37 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Josh B wrote:
Scott wrote:
Oh, I see. Yeah, now you'll need to click into the product page before you can share it. It's a bit of extra work, but if you're choosy about the products that you promote then it might be worthwhile reviewing the design anyways. But I'm not sure exactly what your workflow looks like.

Thanks for the clarification.


So sad if it stays that way. I am choosy about what I promote. Hand choosing products is my preferred method of promoting. The time lost clicking each product and waiting for it to load and then to share... I might have to just use Niftty or some other promoting tool.

Removing that option to promote from the product page will greatly increase the amount of time it will take to selectively promote.

It would be a shame as I believe that most people have at least one of two great designs that deserve to be seen.

I hope other promoters chime in. This change, depending on how you promote, could/will add lots of time to your promoting efforts...

Thanks for the quick answers Scott. I personally hope you bring that feature back.

Josh


I actually like to visit the product page to register a view and will even click the like button while I am there because these things help the designer every time. A promote is nice and has the potential to get a sale for them but a view is a right now thing that as Viv said helps keep that product from getting closer to being hidden. I don't know what benefit a like has for the designer but I like that it goes into my own collection so I can find it again easily.

There I chimed in but it might not be what you wanted to hear. Grin



I agree that the view is nice. But it also misleading as I am not going to buy a lot of what I promote. I promote across several themed pinterest accounts. So I will now be giving "false hope"... " misleading data" or maybe "misleading hope" to designers, that their product/design has been looked at by a customer... which I am not.

When I design, I often look at my last viewed stats (I know how inaccurate they are) to "see" what type of designs my customers are interested in. If a certain product gets promoted a lot then the view count would be skewed as now I'm not necessarily seeing customers views...

On a different note, I just came across an artist that makes great flag pacifiers with flags from all around the world. Now imagine, your looking at at least 50 items I would like to promote.

I can either click on it and have it open in the same window, scroll down click "P". Fill in info and # info and select board. Close that window, click back and then repeat for next product,

or

Open in a new window, click P... same steps... and eventually close that window to find the next product.

Before I could just scroll down the page and share. I still had the " p" steps but it was still faster. Much faster. I figure I lose between 5 and 20 seconds on each product I want to promote right now. That time adds up. Less that I can promote in a given amount of time. When I promote less we all lose. Zazzle, the designer and me...

Just saying...



Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:01:58 PM
@josh

one more thing to consider is that views count toward the popular status so I don't mind a little false hope if it helps my product move up the search result ranks.
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:14:43 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
@josh

one more thing to consider is that views count toward the popular status so I don't mind a little false hope if it helps my product move up the search result ranks.


From a designer standpoint, as I think about it, the change is probably a win.

From a promoter standpoint... at least one that hand selects ... and I'm very picky ... I lose a lot of time opening windows/tabs, waiting for things to load, scrolling, and then either backing up in a window or closing it. The less I can promote in any given time, the less we all potentially earn.

Large companies spend tons of money trying to find faster ways for their employees to do things. This change just increased the time of a picky promoter like myself. In my mind it is counter productive to my efforts.

And I could switch to an auto promoter, but I just feel like I would lose quality promotion in order to gain quantity. I like to think people shop what I promote because I find quality designs and the places I promote aren't cluttered with "poorly designed" products.

And I'm finally getting referral sales and am pumped to promote more and more. I get home today only to find that job is now more time consuming... Crying

I will persevere one way or another. I'll just have to keep track of time spent... and see if auto promoting makes more sense...
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:16:48 PM
·▽·
@josh
A promoter may not buy it, neither do most "customers", that look at products without buying. It is showing interest, views are nothing more until they hit the "add to cart"-button and actually buy the product.

Your view is no less valuable than the view of a non buying customer. Your willingness to promote and go the extra step, spend extra 20 sec shows real interest.

--

... and yet I also agree with you that having the convenience to promote from the overview is important and shouldn't be taken away.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:28:53 PM
vivendulies wrote:
·▽·
@josh
A promoter may not buy it, neither do most "customers", that look at products without buying. It is showing interest, views are nothing more until they hit the "add to cart"-button and actually buy the product.

Your view is no less valuable than the view of a non buying customer. Your willingness to promote and go the extra step, spend extra 20 sec shows real interest.

--

... and yet I also agree with you that having the convenience to promote from the overview is important and shouldn't be taken away.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯



It is the fact that I have to now spend that extra 20 second to promote something... And I know that sounds petty.

But if your goal is to promote say 200 - 300 quality products a day it is going to take much longer to do so. I only have so much time and I like to think my time is valuable.

Yet as a designer I am happy about the positive points made to getting more views. Which is more beneficial in the end... I don't know...
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 9:01:10 PM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
@josh

one more thing to consider is that views count toward the popular status so I don't mind a little false hope if it helps my product move up the search result ranks.


Curious if you know how sales vs views are weighted in determining product/design popularity...

Thought I'd ask before I go searching...

I ask because I looked though a few of my stores... at most sold, most viewed (i know this stat may be lagging a little) and Popular...

What I saw was interesting and has spawned more questions and thought I'd start with the above question.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 12:39:48 AM
While I can’t say for sure, what I see when I look at my own stores popular feed is a mixture of most sales, most views, recently viewed and recently sold. It’s not all sold because scattered in there is a couple of items with high view count but no sales.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 4:07:30 AM
Just below is an image of the arrangement of social media icons and the collection and like icons on a bar that I suggested be implemented in another thread yesterday. It has the virtues of being clear (no shadows), concise (doesn't take up much space), non-intrusive (doesn't clutter our images with ugly icons), multi-purpose (serves customers, promoter and designers), and could appear any place a product appears. It's just a simple adaptation of what already appears under our images on the product pages, but that's an asset as it's familiar.

Just a thought...


[url][url=https://imgbb.com/]


Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 7:22:37 AM
@Shelli - So I haven't been able to find anything that helps us as designers understand what contributes to a products popularity rating. I read lots of threads that discussed the topic, but speculation and theories are the only answers provided. I find it hard to believe that views don't play a role... I just feel bad that every time I now open an item the designer is going to believe its more popular because I decided to promote it. But they won't know it was a promoter and not a potential customer. Maybe that doesn't make sense to some...idk.

@Saints - I like what you have displayed.

In general, and back to the topic, what would be the least time consuming method to promote, in the way that I promote, would be to be able to promote from the search pages.

Doing so know requires the processes I described above and I know how time consuming it is. It was really nice to get into a shop and be able to cut down on the amount of time it took to promote an item, because of the ability to promote from a designers product page.

And at least for me, being able to know how many products a designer had, and how many were in the departments that I promote really helped me make decisions about exploring someones store. Now if I find a product I like that someone made, say a nursery themed light switch cover, I promote that item and then go to their store. I go to product page to see what else they may have made that I like. Then click departments, I can't see if they have made a bunch of nursery stuff or not. So I open the department to find 5 items. Maybe I look, maybe I don't...

I would have been happier seeing 500 items in that department and deciding to check it out. If I saw 5 I probably would not have even looked.

It would be nice to be able to share out of the forums as well.

Its all about time. Anything that Zazzle can do, that lets me hand pick items faster is great. Unfortunately, with these two changes, I have to spend more time to accomplish... probably less, instead of less time to accomplish more.

But, so far, it seems I'm one of few that feel this way. So I have shared my logic (lol)... maybe the Zazzle crew will understand. And make changes soon or maybe they design a different way to increase the speed of my efforts, or maybe I just evaluate, adjust and persevere...

Only TIME will tell..lol

Thanks for listening. I think I have made my points so I'm off to design and promote.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 7:46:57 AM
·▽·


With the new functionality CTRL+Click is your friend. CTRL+Click all designs in one page you want to promote and then work off the tabs with the detail product pages. This way the 20sec don't get lost on top of each other.

You open them parallel and close tabs as you're done promoting them.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 7:56:03 AM
vivendulies wrote:
·▽·


With the new functionality CTRL+Click is your friend. CTRL+Click all designs in one page you want to promote and then work off the tabs with the detail product pages. This way the 20sec don't get lost on top of each other.

You open them parallel and close tabs as you're done promoting them.


Thanks for the tip.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 8:18:38 AM
I also miss this. Guess I will be doing a lot of CTRL+Click and creating false views by clicking on products I want to promote.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 9:34:27 AM
JoshB wrote:
I just feel bad that every time I now open an item the designer is going to believe its more popular because I decided to promote it. But they won't know it was a promoter and not a potential customer.

angelandspot wrote:
Guess I will be doing a lot of CTRL+Click and creating false views by clicking on products I want to promote.

I don't think there is anything false about it. IMO, an affiliate viewing my item is just as meaningful, if not more so, as anyone else viewing it. I mean, if my product attracted the attention of an affiliate who thinks it's worth promoting (and thus attracting even more views on it), that's fantastic, their view should absolutely register. A view count helps judge interest for an item, doesn't matter to me if it's an affiliate or a random shopper, either way it's interest. ;)
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 9:41:05 AM
I must be super picky - I not only open the product page before sharing, I also look at each of the magnified views of the product first.

(Okay, it's actually because of my visual impairments, but I still do it.)
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:05:30 AM
@Col's - When I see one of my products that keeps getting views but doesn't sell, I think to myself, "This product/design is so close to being a seller. What can I do to make it just a little bit better, so that it will sell and not just get looked at." And I've adjusted a few designs and had them sell. Now, I won't know if I need to adjust the design, or if people are promoting it because it is great.

@fuzzy - For me at least, if I can't say wow to a design/product based off the little blow up preview on a search or product page then its a no go for promotion. I do open up some to get closer looks and often those don't get promoted... And I have some basic rules I follow for certain products that easily allow me to filter what I will promote. ie. a white background on the design side of a baby burp cloth... 98% of the time I won't promote. I just don't think it sells...
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:46:39 AM
Josh B wrote:
@fuzzy - For me at least, if I can't say wow to a design/product based off the little blow up preview on a search or product page then its a no go for promotion.

Sure - if it doesn't leap off the page at me from the grid, I wouldn't even bother opening the product page for a closer look.

Josh B wrote:
I do open up some to get closer looks and often those don't get promoted...


Often enough, taking that closer look also helps me to say 'nope'. I guess the difference is that the blow-up view from the product grid doesn't give me enough information.

Josh B wrote:
And I have some basic rules I follow for certain products that easily allow me to filter what I will promote. ie. a white background on the design side of a baby burp cloth... 98% of the time I won't promote. I just don't think it sells...

Makes sense. I'm kind of picky when it comes to patterns, where asymmetry tends to get an automatic 'no' from me. With other abstract work, being too symmetrical can make a work uninteresting. Anything that looks unthoughtful / slapped on gets a 'nope'. I also have to ask myself whether the fact that I like something is reason enough to think it will sell. I have seen so many designs that are just on the wrong product, would do so much better on something different, or even by choosing a different available option for that product. Also, things paired with backgrounds that don't have enough contrast.

So yeah - I have lots of rules. And fairly often, it's pure intuition - where I can't even give a name to why something is a 'nope'.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:57:37 AM
Josh B wrote:
@Col's - When I see one of my products that keeps getting views but doesn't sell, I think to myself, "This product/design is so close to being a seller. What can I do to make it just a little bit better, so that it will sell and not just get looked at." And I've adjusted a few designs and had them sell.

That's very good practice to follow. Smile
But you totally lost me here:
Josh B wrote:
Now, I won't know if I need to adjust the design, or if people are promoting it because it is great.
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 11:32:22 AM
Col's Creations wrote:

But you totally lost me here:
Josh B wrote:
Now, I won't know if I need to adjust the design, or if people are promoting it because it is great.


I have designs, that fellow designer love but never sold. My slap on the back designs have still value. I never regret to leave them online, because they still attract leads to my designs that do sell. And most of them found a customer or two later ... some slap on the back actually took off after they sold once or twice.

I won a contest with one of those, which didn't sell all week when it was featured on the first page, on facebook and the block. A year and a half later it sold for the first time, another half year it sold a second time and ever since it appears every few months in the stats. It is a weird and fun cartoon Viking taking a bath in a photo of a pint of beer.

But I have one I still wait for the buyers with gory morbid humor.

The beer bathing viking is one of the reasons why I rarely delete.
·△·

Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:46:59 PM
@Col's - Now I know that my views are being skewed by other promoters because they have to view my product before they share. (Only if they hand pick and don't use a auto selection program) So now I don't know if I am getting "lots" of views on a product because a customer bought or almost bought the product, or because a promoter decided it was good enough to promote. So now I don't know if the design is almost good enough for a customer to buy, or if it is great and promoters are viewing it to promote it. My view counter doesn't give me information that separates the two. It didn't before, I know, but as a promoter I knew there were a lot of products that I didn't have to go to the product page to know the design is something that I wanted to promote. I imagined that other promoters operate in the same way. So views were customers, not promoters. Now, views will be a mix of both because we can't share from a product page.

@Viv - In stores that I am displaying my art/designs for the joy of designing and sharing, all your points are valid. But for stores where I am designing with the sole purpose of selling they don't.

I think that "counters" under all the share options and like options would be great info for us to have. That information could really help designers "see" what customers/promoters are interested in. Plus that data and view data could be compared and we could make better decisions about product revisions. But that would be a huge ask since most of our stats are wonky at this time. (Simply stating a fact, not complaining.)

In any event, Zazzle Crew has enough on their hands right now with the collections issues. I hope that my points make sense to them and that sometime in the future they make changes that allow promoters that hand pick products to be able to do so faster. I know it would make me happy and that it would allow me to promote more.

Smile
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:56:20 PM
Josh B wrote:
@Col's - Now I know that my views are being skewed by other promoters because they have to view my product before they share. (Only if they hand pick and don't use a auto selection program) So now I don't know if I am getting "lots" of views on a product because a customer bought or almost bought the product, or because a promoter decided it was good enough to promote. So now I don't know if the design is almost good enough for a customer to buy, or if it is great and promoters are viewing it to promote it. My view counter doesn't give me information that separates the two. It didn't before, I know, but as a promoter I knew there were a lot of products that I didn't have to go to the product page to know the design is something that I wanted to promote. I imagined that other promoters operate in the same way. So views were customers, not promoters. Now, views will be a mix of both because we can't share from a product page.

@Viv - In stores that I am displaying my art/designs for the joy of designing and sharing, all your points are valid. But for stores where I am designing with the sole purpose of selling they don't.

I think that "counters" under all the share options and like options would be great info for us to have. That information could really help designers "see" what customers/promoters are interested in. Plus that data and view data could be compared and we could make better decisions about product revisions. But that would be a huge ask since most of our stats are wonky at this time. (Simply stating a fact, not complaining.)

In any event, Zazzle Crew has enough on their hands right now with the collections issues. I hope that my points make sense to them and that sometime in the future they make changes that allow promoters that hand pick products to be able to do so faster. I know it would make me happy and that it would allow me to promote more.

Smile


One thing I am learning the longer I am here is that it is futile to try to pin down a strategy at Zazzle because Zazzle is a constantly moving target... about the time you think you have something figured out they change it.

ETA: that is probably a good thing for their competition but it makes it hard on us who are part of Zazzle to be able to run our part of the business in any kind of efficient way if we are constantly having to shift and regroup.
Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2019 10:26:40 PM
Saints_Aplenty wrote:
Just below is an image of the arrangement of social media icons and the collection and like icons on a bar that I suggested be implemented in another thread yesterday. It has the virtues of being clear (no shadows), concise (doesn't take up much space), non-intrusive (doesn't clutter our images with ugly icons), multi-purpose (serves customers, promoter and designers), and could appear any place a product appears. It's just a simple adaptation of what already appears under our images on the product pages, but that's an asset as it's familiar.

Just a thought...


[url][url=https://imgbb.com/]




I like your suggestion. It looks good. And leaves room to return the share feature right on the product, on the product page.
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