Shared Royalty Structure 15 pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... Last
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 4:10:32 PM
I have a question about the new Royalty structure related to images, elements, and text pairings.

The new policy states:

Secondary Content: Secondary Content can be either (i) digital Content without a Product association (e.g., photography, composited illustrations created in Adobe® Illustrator® or Photoshop®) (“Images”), or (ii) simple forms of Content provided for User convenience (e.g., Text Pairings, Decorated Text, Shapes, Lines, Icons, Stickers, Simple Vector Art, Background Images, or Background Patterns (as those terms are used on the Site) (“Elements”). If a User purchases a physical Product on which they’ve incorporated Secondary Content into your Marketplace Content, then the Designer(s) of the Secondary Content shall share in the Royalty, which shall be based on Your Royalty Rate, as follows:

Marketplace Content + Images: The Designer of the Marketplace Content receives seventy-five percent (75%) of the Royalty, and all Designer(s) of Image(s) equally split a pool of the remaining twenty-five percent (25%) of the Royalty.

Marketplace Content + Elements: The Designer of the Marketplace Content receives fifty (50) times more of the Royalty than the Designer(s) of each of the Elements, but Designers(s) of Element(s) may collectively receive no more than ten percent (10%) of the Royalty of a physical Product.

Marketplace Content + Images + Elements: The Designer of the Marketplace Content shall receive no less than seventy-five percent (75%) of the Royalty, so if there are both Images and Elements used in a physical Product, the remaining twenty-five percent (25%) of the Royalty will be split at a 25:1 ratio between the Designers of the Images and Elements until the ten percent (10%) Elements upper threshold is met.
• Every transaction is subject to rounding.

And I see in the Design Tool that the "Shapes" tab has been renamed "Elements."

So if a customer clicks "Customize Further" adds a circle to a design I created and makes a purchase, I will now share the Royalty with the 'designer' who submitted the shape – that would be Zazzle?

And if that customer customizes and adds text? Or adds a Zazzle-uploaded photo from Create? The Royalty will be split between me and Zazzle?

Is that correct? Or am I misunderstanding?


Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 4:15:56 PM
Thanks for bringing this up. I am interested in what the responses you receive will be. If "Shared Royalty" really is a thing now, I will have to reconsider how I do things here.

EDIT:

I just received the email about this, so off to read
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 4:29:49 PM
This sounds so complicated that my question is how are we supposed to be able to know we are being paid the correct amount?

Why are the royalties not separate? My design will not change and get 25% less than it was before an "element" was added. Why should I have to take a 25% cut? Why is the structure not set up to pay me my set royalty and pay the designer of the element their set royalty per copy of the element?

If I am misunderstanding your legalese then a clarification would be highly appreciated.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 4:57:59 PM
Wow, I am confused and staggered. The help center link in the email (posted above by RoyK) is about as clear as mud to me. The way I understood it, I had the exact same question as RoyK. If a customer adds content to one of our designs, we will now receive a 25% reduced royalty?

I will probably have many more questions as I read through this again, I just can't quite get past the shock of the first one. Shelli brings up good points as well. How will we know what we're being paid for in a shared royalty.

In the email, it says we must "apply" to become a "Create" tool designer. If we choose not to apply, does that mean a customer cannot "download" one of our designs to "send out e-invites?" If we choose to apply and participate, does that mean all of our designs are available for free downloads, or will there be a way to partition designs (or Content) only available for purchase on products? I hope I'm making sense.



Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:01:31 PM
My head is spinning! I can't imagine what a bookkeeping nightmare this is going to be!!!

BTW... @RoyK_is_a_She Nice to see you back even if it's only short term. I've always learned so much from your posts.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:17:56 PM
Does this effect designs/products made prior to this change / addition to the policy?

I have many designs that used shapes - now elements. If I am going to earn 10% less now because I utilized what I understood to be free to use at the time... well, I'll have to rethink the way I design, the way I assign royalties or whether or not to keep those product listed.

Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:25:44 PM
here is how I am reading it

I have a design in the marketplace (marketplace content)

as long as this design remains only my design I get 100% of my set royalty (14.9% or whatever)

but... let somebody add an element (secondary content) and now I only get 75% of my set royalty (I DO mind paying this because it does not change my design and I should still get my FULL royalty regardless of any extra added fluff)

now let that same sale be a 3rd party sale and take out another 20% referral carveout... (which I don't mind paying as long as it is a real affiliate and not Zazzle)

How is this beneficial to me?

If I have this wrong then please give a step by step in plain English so I can understand it.

ETA: If I am not wrong in how I understand this then where is the setting to disallow my designs from having secondary content added?

Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:28:40 PM
Um, someone adds something to one of my designs, buys it, and I get 25% less? Am I reading this right? *facepalm*

BTW they thought the chat thread was long. This one is going to blow up like that one was 2 pages......
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:37:31 PM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:

Why are the royalties not separate? My design will not change and get 25% less than it was before an "element" was added.


When an image is added it is -25%.
When an element is added it is -10%


Elements are
Text Pairings, Decorated Text, Shapes, Lines, Icons, Stickers, Simple Vector Art, Background Images, or Background Patterns (as those terms are used on the Site


Where is the distinction from an image and a simple vector art? It gets blurred quickly.

Must the element be visible, or can customers aka "designer" give themselves a 10% reduction by shoving a shape under an image or color it like the background and hide it this way ...?

Considers zazzle themselves as the designer of shapes and reduces the royalty by 10% across the board with the designs we created in the last few months and used the shape tool for our convenience?

Is the custom text subject to 10% reduction since text is listed under elements?


Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:42:37 PM
Can we please get clarification on this reduction of royalty when someone adds digital content to our market place products? 25% reduction for someone dropping in a text combination or little flower graphic or something is INSANE.
ETA, by insane I mean that the concept of product designers losing out to cover the payments for the secondary content designers' work doesn't exactly feel fair?
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:48:23 PM
If I have a design that I previously created with the design tool and added a shape or line to it through the tool does that mean I will lose 10% when someone buys that product, or will that only happen if they add another shape or line to the design? And who would get that money, Zazzle?

Ooops, I see vivendulies already asked about this. Still, it needs clarification.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:49:42 PM
I see there is a News post, and that the Designer License Agreement is changing too. I haven't read that.

SquirrelHugger wrote:
If a customer adds content to one of our designs, we will now receive a 25% reduced royalty?


I didn't take it to be customer content.

(1) I am taking it to mean Create digital content by virtue of the timing of the announcements. So say a Designer is participating in Create, and that Designer uploads a photo which the world can have for free to download and use in any way shape or form. If a customer takes THAT photo from inside of the Create tool and merges it with an MP Product, then the MP Product's Royalty is shared with the Create Designer.

And I emphasis inside of the Create tool because that's the tool that would monitor a merger of Create Content and an MP Product. (If a user downloads someone's Create content and then uploads it back into Zazzle, what check and balance might there be to catch that? I don't know that answer.)

Also, a Royalty wouldn't be "shared" with a customer - it would, presumably, be shared with a Designer, but, apparently, also with Zazzle. But I am not any more informed that you, so your read may well be correct.

and

(2) It includes "Elements," and until I went into the Design Tool and saw "Shapes" had been renamed to "Elements," I thought that was also about Create. But it appears that a customer adding one of ZAZZLE's "Elements" would cause a Royalty split.

...simple forms of Content (e.g., Text Pairings, Decorated Text, Shapes, Lines, Icons, Stickers, Simple Vector Art, Background Images, or Background Patterns... (“Elements”)

Since the Royalty Share is with the "Designer," I take it that the "Designer" in the case of a Shape or Icon is Zazzle. So we will pay for the licensing agreement costs that come with the addition of the (originally unvetted) Icons many didn't want.

Saints_Aplenty wrote:
My head is spinning! I can't imagine what a bookkeeping nightmare this is going to be!!!

BTW... @RoyK_is_a_She Nice to see you back even if it's only short term. I've always learned so much from your posts.

Mine too. And this after I found an error in my Designer Discount when using Design Transfer - so a simple calculation like "deduct 20%" appears incorrect, and we are now to depend on Royalty Shares between multiple parties. Because Designers love math.

Thanks, so much, @Saints, for saying so! Love


Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 5:54:49 PM
As my sister and I understand it, Shelli is right. If a customer adds something, our royalty goes down. The money could go to Zazzle.

My sister and I have our royalty at 30% or $30 on a $100. If a customer adds something, even text, we lose 25% or $7.50 on a $100 thus making only $22.50. So, although we hate to do it, my sister and I are going to immediately raise our rate to 40% so that we get back to $30 on a $100. We are doing it immediately because of the Christmas royalty freeze. End of my discussion.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:06:32 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:

Mine too. And this after I found an error in my Designer Discount when using Design Transfer - so a simple calculation like "deduct 20%" appears incorrect, and we are now to depend on Royalty Shares between multiple parties. Because Designers love math.


The agreement said when featured. not used ... ??? No clue how I shall take this.

Though it may involve multiple parties (designers providing the images and "elements in form of vector shapes, patterns etc.") but the cut is always either 25% or 10% depending on the definition, whether it is an image or an element.


Create elements/images are free content, whether it comes from zazzle or participants in the designer test group. It is still very undefined under which license these images are released. Is it CC0?

Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:13:33 PM
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:17:59 PM
"Zazzle Designer Agreement" wrote:
If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products:
Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that:
(i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and
(ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."


This answers part of the question what is considered "secondary content".
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:22:21 PM
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


That's right... Royalty lock is next Friday... Right?
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:25:36 PM
vivendulies wrote:
"Zazzle Designer Agreement" wrote:
If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products:
Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that:
(i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and
(ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."


This answers part of the question what is considered "secondary content".

So if I understand this correctly, if I add a shape or line to my design and post it for sale then it is considered 'primary content' and I get the royalty, but if the customer then adds another shape to my design before purchasing then that is considered 'secondary content' and Zazzle gets 10% of my royalty. I would have read the royalty update myself but it asked me to sign in and then wouldn't accept my password. Don't know why since I was already signed in.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:28:44 PM
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


There has been an "allow customization of this product" on the edit page I think. I think this might stop it along with taking any text that was added from Zazzle's text selection, if I am understanding it correctly. However, that would be a product by product change. I don't believe there is an accountwide option as there is for default royalty.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:31:25 PM
I did not see a link in the email or from the Royalty info page above to the new Designer Agreement or any indication it was also changing. And it is not obvious in the News post that the Designer Agreement is changing. But if we hover over the Designer Agreement link in the News post, we see a November date in the link.

In that new Designer Agreement, it defines terms. Note that just plain "Content" is what a Designer uploads and publishes on a Product.

If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."

No true clarity on "Elements," but "Secondary Content" *is* defined as Designer contributed.

The opt out appears to be by not permitting customization. Will we have even a one-time opportunity to turn make Published Products NOT customizable for our existing Public Products?

I would also like to thank Zazzle for announcing this before implementation. But I won't because I believe there was a legal obligation to do so, since our Royalties are affected. Let's please have answers before the effective date of the new terms, so everyone can decide actions most appropriate for themselves.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:32:05 PM
MarBethHolidays wrote:

There has been an "allow customization of this product" on the edit page I think. I think this might stop it along with taking any text that was added from Zazzle's text selection, if I am understanding it correctly. However, that would be a product by product change. I don't believe there is an accountwide option as there is for default royalty.


I don't think you can edit customization options post publish. If you can, I am not seeing it.

RoyK_is_a_She wrote:

Let's please have answers before the effective date of the new terms, so everyone can decide actions most appropriate for themselves.

We need them before the 1st, when royalties are locked until next year.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:34:35 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:


The opt out appears to be by not permitting customization. Will we have even a one-time opportunity to turn make Published Products NOT customizable for our existing Public Products?


I am thinking that I no longer want to allow customization and I wish Zazzle would offer up the option to disallow it, even after posting the product for sale. Without that option I am looking at deleting everything from all stores and starting from scratch should I choose to no longer offer the option. This is nice *not* right here at the holidays (on top of that I will soon be offline for a bit due to a major upcoming move) *sigh*
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:36:32 PM
Just checking in to see if anyone can translate the new policy notice.

Doesn't royalty sharing cover everything since designs are set up as templates made to customize? Isn't that what zazzle is all about?

Edit: I am not messing with royalties, it either works or it doesn't. This is getting too confusing.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:38:01 PM
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


Sorry, but I don't think the timing here is an accident.

I raised my royalty just now but does it go into effect after the 20th of the month even before the freeze? I hope so...
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:42:02 PM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


Sorry, but I don't think the timing here is an accident.

I raised my royalty just now but does it go into effect after the 20th of the month even before the freeze? I hope so...


We have this one time to change outside of the 20th of the month. So long as you have chosen your royalty by November 1st (even if it is different than what you have now and/or changed on the 20th) it will change with the lock (give a day or two or so).

Of course any product you design after that can still be given a different royalty as it would be new and not needing to adhere to the global royalty.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:46:15 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
I did not see a link in the email or from the Royalty info page above to the new Designer Agreement or any indication it was also changing. And it is not obvious in the News post that the Designer Agreement is changing. But if we hover over the Designer Agreement link in the News post, we see a November date in the link.

In that new Designer Agreement, it defines terms. Note that just plain "Content" is what a Designer uploads and publishes on a Product.

If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."

No true clarity on "Elements," but "Secondary Content" *is* defined as Designer contributed.

The opt out appears to be by not permitting customization. Will we have even a one-time opportunity to turn make Published Products NOT customizable for our existing Public Products?

I would also like to thank Zazzle for announcing this before implementation. But I won't because I believe there was a legal obligation to do so, since our Royalties are affected. Let's please have answers before the effective date of the new terms, so everyone can decide actions most appropriate for themselves.


If opting out means disabling the customization option what happens to all of our products with templates? we cant have them right?

Well, Merry Christmas from Zazzle everyone... at least it is not Friday.

Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:48:40 PM
Gina ©gleem wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


Sorry, but I don't think the timing here is an accident.

I raised my royalty just now but does it go into effect after the 20th of the month even before the freeze? I hope so...


We have this one time to change outside of the 20th of the month. So long as you have chosen your royalty by November 1st (even if it is different than what you have now and/or changed on the 20th) it will change with the lock (give a day or two or so).

Of course any product you design after that can still be given a different royalty as it would be new and not needing to adhere to the global royalty.


thank you Gina! at least that is good news.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:49:51 PM
On cell, so forgive my not quoting.

The option to customize isn't changeable in the Edit panel, even one Product at a time. I looked for it earlier - did I miss it?

You're right, @Jerry - I had forgotten about Royalty freeze.

If I recall correctly, a side-effect of not permitting customization is that it locks that Product out of Design Transfer. Something to think about.
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:51:29 PM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Gina ©gleem wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
Jerry wrote:
This one definitely needs an opt-out.

If we are forced to participate in this then all it will cause is severely increased royalties across the marketplace.

We have a week to lock in royalties. This goes into effect on November 22... just at the beginning of holiday shopping.

Ugh, Zazzle. Seriously?


Sorry, but I don't think the timing here is an accident.

I raised my royalty just now but does it go into effect after the 20th of the month even before the freeze? I hope so...


We have this one time to change outside of the 20th of the month. So long as you have chosen your royalty by November 1st (even if it is different than what you have now and/or changed on the 20th) it will change with the lock (give a day or two or so).

Of course any product you design after that can still be given a different royalty as it would be new and not needing to adhere to the global royalty.


thank you Gina! at least that is good news.


You're welcome!
Posted: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 6:52:38 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:


If I recall correctly, a side-effect of not permitting customization is that it locks that Product out of Design Transfer. Something to think about.


I think only opting out of design transfer does that. But, to be sure, I will go check a couple of things to see.

RETURNING:

Wow! You are right! I had never noticed it before, but it does prevent transfer.

I think I will be ok with losing that feature if I choose to not allow customization anymore.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
Print this topic
RSS Feed
Normal
Threaded