Re The New Policy Updates and Collaborative and Original Content 13 pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... Last
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 5:14:36 AM
Dear Zazzle Team

(OP updated to include pertitent queries from the first 12 pages herein for your ease of reply and for members to quickly access the information).

re

Q1. Re 3.1.3 of the new policy update

"you may contribute only original work that you created yourself..."

Does this apply to the digital content create (royalty free - new feature/service) or ALL works because many Designers license art (with permissions but those permissions do not include digital download, royalty free etc etc)

2. Can those users who are against royalty sharing have the ability to bulk edit past designs for 'customize on or off' so that we decide which designs can be subject to the royalty carve out and which cannot. See item 4.

3. Re Collaboration item 6.1.5
Can the customer request Designer collaboration re this or is it only for Designer to Designer or Zazzle to Designer?

3.a If the customer can request collaborators can they request other Designers who are NOT the seller of the original product to collaborate?

3.b I am assuming if a customer can request a Zazzler assist them directly with a design, the following:

As per the agreement if I understand it correctly only the person who initiates the collaboration has the rights to exploit the copyright as a public product (resell, publish, modify, share etc). The Designer can only use the content for their own private purchase and not for sale.

Thus collaborating with a customer via this tool ... not such a great idea for the Designer as we're giving up the right to our 'creation' and art work contained.

3.c As noted before, if the artwork/some of it was licensed by the Designer, their license aggreements would prohibit the above. The customer would only have those rights if they bought the same license as did the designer from the licensor of the art.

4. I am assuming ALL our content prior to this policy update is NOT subject to the terms of the new update but those of the ones in force when the content was uploaded. Is this correct?

5. Re customers adding elements to marletplace designs
AfricanFloraFauna wrote:
One of our stores is entirely our charity's logo, and we would rather not it be used in conjunction with other elements. Yes, I know it could happen anyway as we currently have customize turned on, but it would be less likely to happen without the icons and elements tab right there.


...

Update/Edit based on feedback herein

My suggestions based on marketplace user concerns - please indicate agree/disagree/alternative/new ideas

1. Terms need a redraft to separate digital and marketplace content rules

2. The 'double default' marketplace royalty needs to be changed back to 15% as that is what it is as confirmed in the news update.

3. We need the 'images can be used for any site wide purpose' to be properly defined re what 'site wide' means. (I'll pop back with exact references re these items)

4. Answers please re how 'Digital Create Designers' royalty free images can be used .. re other designers (not the creator) creating 'packages' for sale on etsy/other or here.

5. Opt in and out for chat (read receipt opt in/out) referral links valid .. fast access to direct them customer support.. etc.

6. Opt in / out for designers who want to agree to customers adding elements to their design perhaps via a postsale 'bulk edit' ability to turn on/off the 'cutomize' it feature.

EDIT: Additional queries as added herein by members

SquirrelHugger wrote:


1) How will Zazzle determine if content provided by Create Contributors is "original work" or simply modified content from other sources?

2) Will there be an approval process for submitting artwork, text pairings, patterns, backgrounds, images, etc? If so, what is the general criteria for acceptance?

3) What are the formats for submission? JPEG, AI, SVG, PNG, etc?

4) What are the TOU for the User (customer) when downloaded? And, how will it be enforced? Will Zazzle be our partner in misusage? Or are we on our own as Independent Artists to strikedown mis-handled content? We have all seen how ineffective this can be with our Marketplace designs. At many of the microstocks where I contribute, if content is in violation of their terms, their legal/content teams are right on it and will help. I hope Zazzle has a plan for how to handle this, because it will happen. Some folks are bound to "create" designs using Zazzle Create and consider it their own, thus feeling free to post it for sale on Etsy, CreativeMarket, HungryJpeg, etc.

5) What is Zazzle's Contributor policy on exclusivity? Not that I would want to, but I assume I could submit original artwork that I have for sale at Shutterstock, Fotolia, BigStock, etc. If that's the case, how can Zazzle be sure that "purchased" artwork is not being submitted by someone other than the original artist. If submissions are to be exclusive to Zazzle, what are the guidelines so that we don't have cross-over conflicts with content we provide for sale through other venues? i.e., If I create something to contribute to Create using a brush I made in AI (one that I use for making Marketplace Designs here, or for sale at HungryJpeg) is that considered non-exclusive?



RoyK_is_a_She wrote:

If a COLLABORATION INITIATOR can be ANY Designer or Customer and that COLLABORATION INITIATOR can bring any Designer's Published Product into a Collaboration, and we do NOT have an opt-out, that is a licensing problem of serious proportions.

6.1.5. The copyright to any Content that results from a Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators under 17 U.S. Code Title 17, but each hereby agrees that THE RIGHT TO EXPLOIT THE COPYRIGHT TO THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE AS A “PUBLIC” PRODUCT SHALL BE EXCLUSIVE TO THE INITIATOR OF THE RELEVANT COLLABORATION SESSION (“Collaboration Initiator”). EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE. For the sake of clarity:

6.1.5.1. The Collaboration Initiator is only granted the aforementioned rights in the Collaborative Content, and not to any of the Assets provided by any other Collaborators.

6.1.5.2. Collaborators may create private (i.e., for purchase by the Collaborator, not posted for sale on the Site) Products featuring the Collaborative Content.




Useful member answer re royalty carve out queries



JB Designs wrote:


It would take 6 added elements to lose 10%. The use of only elements maxs out at 10%. 1 element added is a loss of 1.96%.

"Images" is a loss of 25% regardless of how many "images" used. Although it looks like 3 "images" may the max that could be added.

Reference: https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/360037785973

See chart.


If your design is substantially altered by the customer with multiple elements and or an image/s then it's also likely the earlier version would not have been sold but for the 'closer' which was the sum total of your design and those of the secondary designer/s.


Update Edit to clarify for users ( Zazzle please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

There's two things here that are separate entities but seem to be getting confused.

1. Marketplace designs are NOT royalty free and cannot be offered for download and will not appear in the 'create' program.

Only 'create' designs submitted by create designers (special application, approval process) will be subject to those terms/risks.

2. YES IF (and only IF) you have your marketplace products set to 'allow customer to customize' can that customer do as they have always been able to do (this is not new) mess about with your design, add their own images. They've always been able to do this via the 'customize on' option. They can't of course offer 'their' creations for sale and still cannot.

What is NEW here is that in addition to the above they can add elements from around Zazzle ... provided via Zazzle (no royalty carve out) or provided via 'create digital content designers' (yes there's a royalty carve out see above re how it is calculated).




Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 6:00:23 AM
I won't be using the graphics that I have that were free downloads from other sites. Most have a clause that you cannot redistribute the design for sale as a stand alone item. In other words you can use the design on products, but can't resell the design itself. Just to be safe, I will use only my own original creations.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 6:48:46 AM
LeahG, thank you for your questions posted above. Many of them were ones that I had, and I'm still trying to make sense of the "new" policy. I was going to start a new thread with my questions, but since you've hit on some of them, I'll just tailgate them here if that's okay.

1) How will Zazzle determine if content provided by Create Contributors is "original work" or simply modified content from other sources?

2) Will there be an approval process for submitting artwork, text pairings, patterns, backgrounds, images, etc? If so, what is the general criteria for acceptance?

3) What are the formats for submission? JPEG, AI, SVG, PNG, etc?

4) What are the TOU for the User (customer) when downloaded? And, how will it be enforced? Will Zazzle be our partner in misusage? Or are we on our own as Independent Artists to strikedown mis-handled content? We have all seen how ineffective this can be with our Marketplace designs. At many of the microstocks where I contribute, if content is in violation of their terms, their legal/content teams are right on it and will help. I hope Zazzle has a plan for how to handle this, because it will happen. Some folks are bound to "create" designs using Zazzle Create and consider it their own, thus feeling free to post it for sale on Etsy, CreativeMarket, HungryJpeg, etc.

5) What is Zazzle's Contributor policy on exclusivity? Not that I would want to, but I assume I could submit original artwork that I have for sale at Shutterstock, Fotolia, BigStock, etc. If that's the case, how can Zazzle be sure that "purchased" artwork is not being submitted by someone other than the original artist. If submissions are to be exclusive to Zazzle, what are the guidelines so that we don't have cross-over conflicts with content we provide for sale through other venues? i.e., If I create something to contribute to Create using a brush I made in AI (one that I use for making Marketplace Designs here, or for sale at HungryJpeg) is that considered non-exclusive?


Oh my, I'm sure I'll have more questions. These are just the first ones that come to mind. I might want to "Apply" to be a contributor, but not before fully understanding how our rights will be handled by Zazzle.

Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 7:01:41 AM
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.

This is dangerous waters for designers. I am sure imdemnity clauses have already been put in place that release Zazzle from all legal issues that arise regarding your own content contributions.

I haven't read all the fine print yet but they don't pay the legal team to write these terms and agreements for no reason.

Adding: it is common now that "by logging in and using the website you agree to these terms" no checkbox required anymore.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 7:24:53 AM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:03:16 AM
As noted in the policy update the new 'digital content' service is already 'in progress via a test group of designers'. Also noted in the update is that inclusion in this service is via an application process. The two things together mean that NOT all Designers will be able to contribute/opt in/opt out and that the service is going ahead and will be public (I assume) when sufficient content is available.

A contributer (I assume) will be able to view the 'terms' upon successful application and offer to join the program.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:09:51 AM
+1
I'm with Shelli about doing stuff for Create.

Create is a little like Canva and Canva does offer some free templates for users, but the majority of their templates require customers to purchase a license of their artist's work and from that, Canva pays their artist's monthly.
Canva pays a flat 35% royalty (minus processing & taxes) from all the licensing fees people pay to use your design, if you're the artist (and licensing fees run from $1 for one time use to $100 for extended use per design purchased). They also have a photo program artists can earn 50% net from (after processing fees and taxes) for providing photos for the Canva photo subscription service that users can buy into with a monthly subscription.
An artist can choose either method or both.
This is FYI for comparison.

(I looked up their info page)
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:14:07 AM
LeahG wrote:

As noted in the policy update the new 'digital content' service is already 'in progress via a test group of designers'. Also noted in the update is that inclusion in this service is via an application process. The two things together mean that NOT all Designers will be able to contribute/opt in/opt out and that the service is going ahead and will be public (I assume) when sufficient content is available.

A contributer (I assume) will be able to view the 'terms' upon successful application and offer to join the program.



The application process to be able to submit content to Create is a good thing. I am guessing/hoping that it involves a vetting of designs so that none get through that are modifications of licensed designs where the license disallows re-distribution.

Not that I would ever apply. It essentially turns any submitted designs into CC0 since they can be downloaded for free. Maybe there is some sort of compensation for this by Zazzle in the mysterious terms that are only seen (it would seem) after becoming one of the vetted designers.


I'll give that a good leaving alone in any case.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:08:52 AM
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:17:28 AM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.


How do I know if my designs are included in the design tool? If a customer is adding something to one of my designs in the create tool does that give them access somehow to my image(s)?
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:24:51 AM
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
How do I know if my designs are included in the design tool? If a customer is adding something to one of my designs in the create tool does that give them access somehow to my image(s)?

No one but you can have access to your images--that is, those you've saved in "My Images." There's no pathway to them.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:28:43 AM
Quote:
No one but you can have access to your images--that is, those you've saved in "My Images." There's no pathway to them.


there is no pathway to them now but the new agreement says that we are granting zazzle a license to allow any and all of our work to modified for download


Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:29:13 AM
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.


How do I know if my designs are included in the design tool? If a customer is adding something to one of my designs in the create tool does that give them access somehow to my image(s)?


As long as you don't apply to contribute content your images should never be there. You would have to submit them.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:29:33 AM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.


Then I see no incentive whatsoever to contribute images to it, unless there is something I am totally missing.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:39:55 AM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
No one but you can have access to your images--that is, those you've saved in "My Images." There's no pathway to them.


there is no pathway to them now but the new agreement says that we are granting zazzle a license to allow any and all of our work to modified for download




Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.
...
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:44:36 AM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.


How do I know if my designs are included in the design tool? If a customer is adding something to one of my designs in the create tool does that give them access somehow to my image(s)?


As long as you don't apply to contribute content your images should never be there. You would have to submit them.


Thank you Colorwash, sugarhai and Shelli.
So even if new terms say we give the ok for all of our work to be downloaded and modified my works are safe as long as I don't upload to the create/design tool? It is very confusing since if a customer is adding something to one of my designs I get to share a royalty. Still they don't have access to download it/them.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 11:52:11 AM
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
FischerFineArts wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I will not be adding any content to the create tool. Any content added there will be downloadable at no cost and at high print resolutions.

Any content you do add to it, consider it public domain from now on and make sure you have the rights in the first place to release the rights when you contribute it.


I don't understand why an artist would want to give their work away for free? When I received the email and started reading it, my first thought was, "Oh, this might be cool and a lot of my patterns might work well for this!" ...

...then I got to the point where it said users could DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. Wait, what???! Why would this even be allowed with no compensation to a designer? What am I missing here? What are customers allowed to do with the downloads? Where are those TOU's and what licensing rights would I be giving up for allowing free downloads?


you will give up your copyrights as far as what the person who downloads it can do with your content... there is no agreement when downloading from the create tool. I know because before all this (when it first came out) I used it to make media ads with. When you hit the download button it downloads the file with no agreements whatsoever about how you can use it.


How do I know if my designs are included in the design tool? If a customer is adding something to one of my designs in the create tool does that give them access somehow to my image(s)?


As long as you don't apply to contribute content your images should never be there. You would have to submit them.


Thank you Colorwash, sugarhai and Shelli.
So even if new terms say we give the ok for all of our work to be downloaded and modified my works are safe as long as I don't upload to the create/design tool? It is very confusing since if a customer is adding something to one of my designs I get to share a royalty. Still they don't have access to download it/them.


that is my understanding so far anyway, but the terms of use are subject to change at anytime so we must keep up to date on them. They are unnecessarily confusing and I think it is not an accident.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 12:46:54 PM
I wasn't paying attention to this thread because I am not going to participate in Create or Collaborate. Understanding now, however, that my Marketplace Products are subject to Collaboration, whether I want it or not under the new terms, if I can get over the pillaging of my Royalties (eye roll, I know), then I guess I have to pay attention.

This right point by @LeahG needs to be addressed. All designs published are done under the then-effective terms. Zazzle, please confirm.

LeahG wrote:
4. I am assuming ALL our content prior to this policy update is NOT subject to the terms of the new update but those of the ones in force when the content was uploaded. Is this correct?

...


If a COLLABORATION INITIATOR can be ANY Designer or Customer and that COLLABORATION INITIATOR can bring any Designer's Published Product into a Collaboration, and we do NOT have an opt-out, that is a licensing problem of serious proportions.

6.1.5. The copyright to any Content that results from a Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators under 17 U.S. Code Title 17, but each hereby agrees that THE RIGHT TO EXPLOIT THE COPYRIGHT TO THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE AS A “PUBLIC” PRODUCT SHALL BE EXCLUSIVE TO THE INITIATOR OF THE RELEVANT COLLABORATION SESSION (“Collaboration Initiator”). EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE. For the sake of clarity:

6.1.5.1. The Collaboration Initiator is only granted the aforementioned rights in the Collaborative Content, and not to any of the Assets provided by any other Collaborators.

6.1.5.2. Collaborators may create private (i.e., for purchase by the Collaborator, not posted for sale on the Site) Products featuring the Collaborative Content.


I doubt any Designer who purchases digital assets with a license to sell on POD products also has the right to grant such a broad secondary license to a third party for additional sales and exploitation of the copyright of those assets. This covers many of Zazzle's top level designers. Many. Look through CreativeMarket and then look through the Zazzle Marketplace.

If any PERSON can be a Collaboration Initiator, I will have no choice but to remove my products. Zazzle would be writing checks my body can't cash. I am unable grant the required license of purchased assets and I refuse to grant that level of license of my own works.

Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 12:59:59 PM
Quote:
Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.


it doesn't say we have to include our designs in the create tool, but it does say that we are giving permission to have our work downloaded

the download part it new - it's not in the old agreement

Licenses.

By uploading Content to the Site and/or creating Content with Zazzle's design tools, you grant the following licenses to Zazzle: the nonexclusive, worldwide, transferable, sublicensable right to use, reproduce, publicly display, sell, and distribute the Content (a) in or on Products and (b) in advertising, marketing, samples, and promotional materials for the purpose of promoting the Site, your Content and Products. Without limitation, this promotion, marketing, or advertising may consist of: (i) display of your Content and/or Products; (ii) promotional "streams" of audio/video/photographic content, including but not limited to your Content, on the Website, (iii) Products or Content placement in magazines, television shows, movies, and other media; and (iv) the distribution of Content and Products available on the Site through third party product feeds and websites. You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes. If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."

Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:17:31 PM
OK, please tell me if I'm wrong. Zazzle itself can now be a third party referrer of a product, then have a little pop-up (or whatever) to encourage a customer to add a "design element" that Zazzle itself made to said product, meaning that Zazzle itself would get the referral cut *plus* an additional 25% of my commission?
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:17:32 PM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.


it doesn't say we have to include our designs in the create tool, but it does say that we are giving permission to have our work downloaded

the download part it new - it's not in the old agreement

Licenses.

By uploading Content to the Site and/or creating Content with Zazzle's design tools, you grant the following licenses to Zazzle: the nonexclusive, worldwide, transferable, sublicensable right to use, reproduce, publicly display, sell, and distribute the Content (a) in or on Products and (b) in advertising, marketing, samples, and promotional materials for the purpose of promoting the Site, your Content and Products. Without limitation, this promotion, marketing, or advertising may consist of: (i) display of your Content and/or Products; (ii) promotional "streams" of audio/video/photographic content, including but not limited to your Content, on the Website, (iii) Products or Content placement in magazines, television shows, movies, and other media; and (iv) the distribution of Content and Products available on the Site through third party product feeds and websites. You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes. If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."



Oh, dear. Yes you are absolutely right. The download part in the contract is vague and unlimited. The question is how much assertion of zazzle employees that this is limited to the create tool submission in writing here in the forum count as addition and limitations of said contract.

I wouldn't want to fight this battle.

Oh, dear
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:23:47 PM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.


it doesn't say we have to include our designs in the create tool, but it does say that we are giving permission to have our work downloaded

the download part it new - it's not in the old agreement

Licenses.

By uploading Content to the Site and/or creating Content with Zazzle's design tools, you grant the following licenses to Zazzle: the nonexclusive, worldwide, transferable, sublicensable right to use, reproduce, publicly display, sell, and distribute the Content (a) in or on Products and (b) in advertising, marketing, samples, and promotional materials for the purpose of promoting the Site, your Content and Products. Without limitation, this promotion, marketing, or advertising may consist of: (i) display of your Content and/or Products; (ii) promotional "streams" of audio/video/photographic content, including but not limited to your Content, on the Website, (iii) Products or Content placement in magazines, television shows, movies, and other media; and (iv) the distribution of Content and Products available on the Site through third party product feeds and websites. You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes. If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."



yikes! thanks for pointing that out... I was skipping over it and it wasn't sinking in

This is not good, and I feel even more pressed toward "exit stage left" before November 23.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:28:09 PM
double yikes!
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:36:23 PM
vivendulies wrote:
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.


it doesn't say we have to include our designs in the create tool, but it does say that we are giving permission to have our work downloaded

the download part it new - it's not in the old agreement

Licenses.

By uploading Content to the Site and/or creating Content with Zazzle's design tools, you grant the following licenses to Zazzle: the nonexclusive, worldwide, transferable, sublicensable right to use, reproduce, publicly display, sell, and distribute the Content (a) in or on Products and (b) in advertising, marketing, samples, and promotional materials for the purpose of promoting the Site, your Content and Products. Without limitation, this promotion, marketing, or advertising may consist of: (i) display of your Content and/or Products; (ii) promotional "streams" of audio/video/photographic content, including but not limited to your Content, on the Website, (iii) Products or Content placement in magazines, television shows, movies, and other media; and (iv) the distribution of Content and Products available on the Site through third party product feeds and websites. You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes. If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."



Oh, dear. Yes you are absolutely right. The download part in the contract is vague and unlimited. The question is how much assertion of zazzle employees that this is limited to the create tool submission in writing here in the forum count as addition and limitations of said contract.

I wouldn't want to fight this battle.

Oh, dear


I could be mistaken, but my impression is that this only applies to content added to Create. <- Recanted. Upon further consideration, I'm convinced this language is overly broad. I cannot in good conscious recommend that people trust this to be innocuous legalese.

There is access to product blanks from the Create tool, as memory serves.

Still, it's clear as mud.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:46:03 PM
Felosarix wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
Not that I know of. I read it thoroughly and you don't agree to have your images included in the create tool for download even after November 22nd.

The general use is more or less the same as before with one exception the ability to add secondary content from designers who participate in the create tool and thereby also agreed to the option that their images can be downloaded for free and used on 3rd party websites for publication. The download so far is lacking in conveying the licence agreement which will very likely result in the assumption they're CC0 images by create tool user.


it doesn't say we have to include our designs in the create tool, but it does say that we are giving permission to have our work downloaded

the download part it new - it's not in the old agreement

Licenses.

By uploading Content to the Site and/or creating Content with Zazzle's design tools, you grant the following licenses to Zazzle: the nonexclusive, worldwide, transferable, sublicensable right to use, reproduce, publicly display, sell, and distribute the Content (a) in or on Products and (b) in advertising, marketing, samples, and promotional materials for the purpose of promoting the Site, your Content and Products. Without limitation, this promotion, marketing, or advertising may consist of: (i) display of your Content and/or Products; (ii) promotional "streams" of audio/video/photographic content, including but not limited to your Content, on the Website, (iii) Products or Content placement in magazines, television shows, movies, and other media; and (iv) the distribution of Content and Products available on the Site through third party product feeds and websites. You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes. If you select the "customizable" option, you also agree that Zazzle and ("Users") may make changes to the Content for the purposes of creating and ordering Products: Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content."



Oh, dear. Yes you are absolutely right. The download part in the contract is vague and unlimited. The question is how much assertion of zazzle employees that this is limited to the create tool submission in writing here in the forum count as addition and limitations of said contract.

I wouldn't want to fight this battle.

Oh, dear


I could be mistaken, but my impression is that this only applies to content added to Create. There is access to product blanks from the Create tool, as memory serves.

Still, it's clear as mud.


There are three things that make a contract:

1.) A contract with terms like the one here quoted
2.) An agreement between an employee if you can prove that whatever agreement was made has happened, like writing from a zazzle employee here in the forum (Hence my comment)
3.) Years of business practice

One and three are strong and have been successful in court time and again. How valid some mentioning in a forum even in a corporate one from an employee ... I have no clue how strong this would be. I wouldn't want to rely on it.

So! As far as I'm concerned I go with the contract and assume the worst, that zazzle includes the transfer option to facebook banners if and when they are happy with their new create tool results.
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 2:42:53 PM
I'm totally lost by all this. As Vivendulles said, it's as clear as mud.

Could someone kindly just explain briefly, (in very simple language if you can) for a dum dum like me, what it is that Zazzle are planning to do. I haven't even got my w8ben approved yet and from the sounds of all this,
I may want to leave.

Thanks, Carol
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 3:08:06 PM
WilBiCreations wrote:
I'm totally lost by all this. As Vivendulles said, it's as clear as mud.

Could someone kindly just explain briefly, (in very simple language if you can) for a dum dum like me, what it is that Zazzle are planning to do. I haven't even got my w8ben approved yet and from the sounds of all this,
I may want to leave.

Thanks, Carol


Carol, I wish I could... it seems like a paradigm shift in the business model and I honestly am also reeling trying to figure it all out. .
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 3:23:38 PM
Ok, thanks Shelli,
I'll try reading it again, though I think i could be reading it until I'm blue in the face Sad and be none the wiser.

Carol
Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 3:31:23 PM
Quote:
I could be mistaken, but my impression is that this only applies to content added to Create. There is access to product blanks from the Create tool, as memory serves.

Still, it's clear as mud.


to me this is very clear because they define "Content" earlier in the agreement as anything that we upload to zazzle including our designs that we put on products (not just for the create tool)

so when they say "You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/download/sale on a particular Product or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes."

it clearly means that we are agreeing to have our designs made available for download

it does not mean that they will but it does mean that they can



Posted: Thursday, October 24, 2019 3:47:38 PM
okay, I got an answer in email saying they are not offering our designs for download and an employee has also said this in the forums

so if they are right then I think that wording needs to be changed...
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