New attribution model - true or false? 5 pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 7:38:01 AM
JB Designs wrote:
Harmony wrote:
I don't see any FTC disclaimers regarding any of the emails Zazzle sends that contain their affiliaite codes


I thought about this for a bit and I think they don't have to.

I know we think about our products as ours, but they are actually Zazzles and as such there is no need to disclose.

Although disclosing the fact that cookies can be over ridden in the Associates Program public page, how the program works, should be done in my opinion.

It lists a cookie length of 45 days. Which may be true. But there is no disclosure that cookies can be over ridden. If I were a new affiliate and learned that after signing up, I would feel deceived.

Maybe I am wrong about affiliate disclosures, but I thought you were required to add one anytime you could make money of an item whether it was your own product or someone else's. After all if I am an Amazon affiliate, I don't own the product I am promoting but I will earn a fee if it sells.
Using your way of seeing things, Zazzle doesn't own the products that the designs are on,in a sense, they may own the design but not the product so, they should use an affiliate disclosure.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:09:57 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
JB Designs wrote:
Harmony wrote:
I don't see any FTC disclaimers regarding any of the emails Zazzle sends that contain their affiliaite codes


I thought about this for a bit and I think they don't have to.

I know we think about our products as ours, but they are actually Zazzles and as such there is no need to disclose.

Although disclosing the fact that cookies can be over ridden in the Associates Program public page, how the program works, should be done in my opinion.

It lists a cookie length of 45 days. Which may be true. But there is no disclosure that cookies can be over ridden. If I were a new affiliate and learned that after signing up, I would feel deceived.

Maybe I am wrong about affiliate disclosures, but I thought you were required to add one anytime you could make money of an item whether it was your own product or someone else's. After all if I am an Amazon affiliate, I don't own the product I am promoting but I will earn a fee if it sells.
Using your way of seeing things, Zazzle doesn't own the products that the designs are on,in a sense, they may own the design but not the product so, they should use an affiliate disclosure.


Actually they do not own the designs either. They license them from us and we own our designs.

I don't know about the disclosure part bc when I try to find information on companies affiliating for themselves there isn't any information on that.

Everything I have read assumes that the affiliate will be another entity apart and separate from the company they are promoting, whether it be another company or an independent contractor like we are.

It is like nobody out there ever heard of a company affiliating for itself.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:23:40 AM
By definition, you can't affiliate for a company and be the company at the same time. I've never seen Zazzle refer to what they're doing as an affiliation. Instead, it's a "referral," which is kind of nebulous at best.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:24:45 AM
randysgrandma wrote:
JB Designs wrote:
Harmony wrote:
I don't see any FTC disclaimers regarding any of the emails Zazzle sends that contain their affiliaite codes


I thought about this for a bit and I think they don't have to.

I know we think about our products as ours, but they are actually Zazzles and as such there is no need to disclose.

Although disclosing the fact that cookies can be over ridden in the Associates Program public page, how the program works, should be done in my opinion.

It lists a cookie length of 45 days. Which may be true. But there is no disclosure that cookies can be over ridden. If I were a new affiliate and learned that after signing up, I would feel deceived.

Maybe I am wrong about affiliate disclosures, but I thought you were required to add one anytime you could make money of an item whether it was your own product or someone else's. After all if I am an Amazon affiliate, I don't own the product I am promoting but I will earn a fee if it sells.
Using your way of seeing things, Zazzle doesn't own the products that the designs are on,in a sense, they may own the design but not the product so, they should use an affiliate disclosure.


I think an argument can be made that any and all products are Zazzles. I may be wrong. And I won't be surprised when others disagree. But Zazzle itself, or Zazzle through contract, produces the end product. So any email or link generated is for their own product. No disclosure required.

We, as affiliates have to disclose that we are earning money for generating an ad for a product that is not our own. We have generated that ad in an effort to make money. The "ad" could be a pin, a blog post etc. But our purpose, as a non Zazzle employee, is to say, hey this is great, buy it. So we get paid. Which is different than someone who writes a blog post about just liking something. There purpose is just to share something they liked.

It is also different than a business sending out a business email. Which is what Zazzle does.

I can't say that I like what I'm writing or that I agree with the practice that Zazzle uses. From one point of view I am in awe at the power of their use of their own affiliate links, and from the other I am disgusted with it. If they fully disclosed to the affiliates they are trying to recruit that they themselves will compete with them, I doubt many would bother. Especially if they knew the full scope of the disadvantage promoters have.

I'm not a lawyer. But I think from a strictly legal standpoint they are not self affiliating, they are just conducting business.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:31:05 AM
Colorwash wrote:
By definition, you can't affiliate for a company and be the company at the same time. I've never seen Zazzle refer to what they're doing as an affiliation. Instead, it's a "referral," which is kind of nebulous at best.


well they are using the same type of referral links that we affiliates use so I have to ask... What's the difference?
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:33:36 AM
JB, as I indicated in the post above yours, it's a matter of semantics and also a matter of Zazzle using the reference number that affiliates use. They've claimed various reasons for this, the most recent I caw being for tracking customers. I suppose it could be good intentions with bad consequences, but they've been fully aware of those consequences for quite some time.

They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

(Shelli, you can see what I think of the process. Sad )
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:37:36 AM
Colorwash wrote:
JB, as I indicated in the post above yours, it's a matter of semantics and also a matter of Zazzle using the reference number that affiliates use. They've claimed various reasons for this, the most recent I caw being for tracking customers. I suppose it could be good intentions with bad consequences, but they've been fully aware of those consequences for quite some time.

They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

(Shelli, you can see what I think of the process. Sad )


CW, I have to humbly disagree with part of what you said... they do earn referral fees every time they carve out 20% of our royalty because they call themselves a 3rd party.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:37:41 AM
Colorwash wrote:
They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

They don't "earn," but they take 20% of our Royalties with their "3rd Party" sales.

Colorwash wrote:
Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

The claim is that the marketing channel can't be tracked without an RF ID attached to the link.

Surely, there is.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:44:43 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Colorwash wrote:
They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

They don't "earn," but they take 20% of our Royalties with their "3rd Party" sales.

Yes, I forgot about that little nugget.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:44:59 AM
Colorwash wrote:
JB, as I indicated in the post above yours, it's a matter of semantics and also a matter of Zazzle using the reference number that affiliates use. They've claimed various reasons for this, the most recent I caw being for tracking customers. I suppose it could be good intentions with bad consequences, but they've been fully aware of those consequences for quite some time.

They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

(Shelli, you can see what I think of the process. Sad )


I read ya. They are just conducting business. There is some perceived shadiness to it, rightfully so in my opinion. But they aren't violating FTC rules. Just advertising the 350 million plus products they sell from their website. It's the finding a way to pay us less part that gets under everyones skin.

While I like the 7 day cookie change, I would appreciate it if Zazzle can do more to help promoters out. I do still believe that the cookie can be over ridden in 7 days is an important part of being honest when trying to recruit more promoters. Saying it is a 45 day cookie is both true and misleading at the same time.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:45:59 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Colorwash wrote:
They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

They don't "earn," but they take 20% of our Royalties with their "3rd Party" sales.

Colorwash wrote:
Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

The claim is that the marketing channel can't be tracked without an RF ID attached to the link.

Surely, there is.


yes, as somebody said (maybe it was you) they could set their own percentage to zero.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 8:46:56 AM
JB Designs wrote:
Colorwash wrote:
JB, as I indicated in the post above yours, it's a matter of semantics and also a matter of Zazzle using the reference number that affiliates use. They've claimed various reasons for this, the most recent I caw being for tracking customers. I suppose it could be good intentions with bad consequences, but they've been fully aware of those consequences for quite some time.

They aren't their own affiliate and don't earn referral fees. Instead, they simply don't have to pay the fee that would have otherwise gone to an affiliate.

Surely there's a different method for tracking customers.

(Shelli, you can see what I think of the process. Sad )


I read ya. They are just conducting business. There is some perceived shadiness to it, rightfully so in my opinion. But they aren't violating FTC rules. Just advertising the 350 million plus products they sell from their website. It's the finding a way to pay us less part that gets under everyones skin.

While I like the 7 day cookie change, I would appreciate it if Zazzle can do more to help promoters out. I do still believe that the cookie can be over ridden in 7 days is an important part of being honest when trying to recruit more promoters. Saying it is a 45 day cookie is both true and misleading at the same time.


I don't even care about the disclosure part, it is the hijacking that is bothering me.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:07:02 AM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
When is this taking affect? I sent a direct only link to a friend on Monday, she purchased, and surprise, surprise... the sale came up as a 3rd party sale! I was the one that introduced her to Zazzle, she didn't know about it until me. I brought the customer and sold her a private, direct only link (with my referral attached). How does this happen? It is impossible for me to ever earn a darn referral! Why do I even bother? I CAN NOT WAIT to see what the tracking code comes back as, grrrrrrrr


Ok Zazzle, so I would appreciate an answer. Just got the email saying my product has sold and the referral tracking was "tc=emc_OrderConfirmationV2" meaning that my referral was stolen from me by Zazzle. Can I get an explanation since this new change is proven wrong and you still took my referral AFTER I sent a direct only link for a specific product to my friend FIRST. This is so aggravating and unfair.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:12:47 AM
JB Designs wrote:
Just advertising the 350 million plus products they sell from their website. It's the finding a way to pay us less part that gets under everyones skin.

Even in the most liberal interpretation, an "Unsubscribe" link in an email can't possibly be considered "advertising." "Your order has been delivered" - advertising? "Please review your purchase"?

The FTC specifically cites deceptive practices as the reason affiliate guidelines were initiated. If I recall correctly, it was reviews that started it all - people not disclosing that they could earn from links in a positive review. But deception was the basis of it.

JB Designs wrote:
While I like the 7 day cookie change, I would appreciate it if Zazzle can do more to help promoters out. I do still believe that the cookie can be over ridden in 7 days is an important part of being honest when trying to recruit more promoters. Saying it is a 45 day cookie is both true and misleading at the same time.

The Associate Agreement notes that Referral IDs may be overwritten:

Quote:
We will record the time for each User each time such User visits the Site via the Links or Your Associate ID using cookies. Users may block or delete such cookie, and the possible replacement of such cookie as a result of the User entering the Site from a different destination or such blocking or deletion of the cookie may result in our inability to place or detect the cookie. In such a case, no Referral Fees will be paid.

The time for each User visit will reset every forty-five (45) days, and Zazzle will pay the Associate who referred the most recent User(s) making a purchase. The only exception is where a User who originally (and most recently) entered the Site through one Associate's Link re-enters the Site through another Associate's Link within a short window prior to purchase. In such a case, the original Associate will receive the Referral Fee.

Cookies are set with expiration dates. The Z Referral cookie is set with a 45-day expiration. That's why we call it a "45-day cookie." Whether or not a cookie may be overwritten during the time it is set is at the discretion of the company offering the affiliate program. Some do it and some don't. I find there's more competition in the programs that don't overwrite, but the potential for earning is higher, so it's a reasonable trade off.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:16:25 AM
­čî╝Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
yes, as somebody said (maybe it was you) they could set their own percentage to zero.

Yes, and no one responded to that suggestion.

Per the Associates Agreement -

Quote:
15. Cooperation
If Zazzle asks you for clarification or for more information on any orders or clicks that we (in our sole discretion) suspect may be in violation of this Associates Agreement, Program and/or Policies, we expect that you will respond in a timely and honest manner. The following responses (collectively, "Violations") constitute violations of the Program: (i) if you are not forthcoming, intentionally vague or are found to be lying; (ii) if you are not responsive within a reasonable time period or after multiple attempts to contact you using information listed in your account; or (iii) if you cannot substantiate or validate the source of your traffic to the Program with clear and demonstrable proof. In the event of a Violation, Zazzle reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to do any or all of the following: (a) reverse orders; (b) set your Referral Fee to zero percent (0%); (c) suspend you from the Program for the period or orders in question; or (d) suspend you from the Program entirely. We understand that Violations may be the result of automated processes; however, it is incumbent upon each Associate to ensure that it has appropriate checks and balances in place to proactively address these issues and adhere to Program rules.

It's also proven that it can be done by Promoter Program participants indicating they are earning 0% Referrals under certain circumstances. (Not a participant, so I don't know the details.)


Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:18:48 AM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
When is this taking affect? I sent a direct only link to a friend on Monday, she purchased, and surprise, surprise... the sale came up as a 3rd party sale! I was the one that introduced her to Zazzle, she didn't know about it until me. I brought the customer and sold her a private, direct only link (with my referral attached). How does this happen? It is impossible for me to ever earn a darn referral! Why do I even bother? I CAN NOT WAIT to see what the tracking code comes back as, grrrrrrrr


Ok Zazzle, so I would appreciate an answer. Just got the email saying my product has sold and the referral tracking was "tc=emc_OrderConfirmationV2" meaning that my referral was stolen from me by Zazzle. Can I get an explanation since this new change is proven wrong and you still took my referral AFTER I sent a direct only link for a specific product to my friend FIRST. This is so aggravating and unfair.

I am not Zazzle, but the way I see it happening: If your friend ordered from Zazzle previously and clicked a link in his/her Order Confirmation email, that cookie would've set. If they clicked your link within 7 days, your cookie wouldn't have overwritten Zazzle's.

This is where helping people thinking we'll get the Referral isn't going to work under the new settings.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:22:47 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
When is this taking affect? I sent a direct only link to a friend on Monday, she purchased, and surprise, surprise... the sale came up as a 3rd party sale! I was the one that introduced her to Zazzle, she didn't know about it until me. I brought the customer and sold her a private, direct only link (with my referral attached). How does this happen? It is impossible for me to ever earn a darn referral! Why do I even bother? I CAN NOT WAIT to see what the tracking code comes back as, grrrrrrrr


Ok Zazzle, so I would appreciate an answer. Just got the email saying my product has sold and the referral tracking was "tc=emc_OrderConfirmationV2" meaning that my referral was stolen from me by Zazzle. Can I get an explanation since this new change is proven wrong and you still took my referral AFTER I sent a direct only link for a specific product to my friend FIRST. This is so aggravating and unfair.

I am not Zazzle, but the way I see it happening: If your friend ordered from Zazzle previously and clicked a link in his/her Order Confirmation email, that cookie would've set. If they clicked your link within 7 days, your cookie wouldn't have overwritten Zazzle's.

This is where helping people thinking we'll get the Referral isn't going to work under the new settings.


Thanks Royk, I get it but she never knew about Zazzle, so she never ordered before. She saw my marketing on my Facebook and asked for something custom. I sent her 5 links with my referral codes attached and she went with an option. There is no reason Zazzle should have gotten this referral. In the past there were always chances of that happening and me not being 100% sure, but this time I know for sure she was a first time customer brought to Zazzle by me.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:28:09 AM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
When is this taking affect? I sent a direct only link to a friend on Monday, she purchased, and surprise, surprise... the sale came up as a 3rd party sale! I was the one that introduced her to Zazzle, she didn't know about it until me. I brought the customer and sold her a private, direct only link (with my referral attached). How does this happen? It is impossible for me to ever earn a darn referral! Why do I even bother? I CAN NOT WAIT to see what the tracking code comes back as, grrrrrrrr


Ok Zazzle, so I would appreciate an answer. Just got the email saying my product has sold and the referral tracking was "tc=emc_OrderConfirmationV2" meaning that my referral was stolen from me by Zazzle. Can I get an explanation since this new change is proven wrong and you still took my referral AFTER I sent a direct only link for a specific product to my friend FIRST. This is so aggravating and unfair.

I am not Zazzle, but the way I see it happening: If your friend ordered from Zazzle previously and clicked a link in his/her Order Confirmation email, that cookie would've set. If they clicked your link within 7 days, your cookie wouldn't have overwritten Zazzle's.

This is where helping people thinking we'll get the Referral isn't going to work under the new settings.


Thanks Royk, I get it but she never knew about Zazzle, so she never ordered before. She saw my marketing on my Facebook and asked for something custom. I sent her 5 links with my referral codes attached and she went with an option. There is no reason Zazzle should have gotten this referral. In the past there were always chances of that happening and me not being 100% sure, but this time I know for sure she was a first time customer brought to Zazzle by me.


in which case that means the cookie was overwritten when she clicked a link the order confirmation email that Z sent her after she placed this order in question?

thinking about that how could that happen?
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:29:06 AM
Just a note: I'm not sure why it's happening, but it appears that folks are disagreeing with some of the comments that are actually in agreement with them. I find this very confusing.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:32:07 AM
That's exactly my question Shelli! How did Zazzle's cookie overwrite mine? She didn't make an account until she went to order, so Zazzle wouldn't of had her email previously to have gotten the cookie first. I just don't get it.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:47:47 AM
I just went through my conversations & emails. Please tell me if you see where Zazzle could have slipped into the ordeal.

01/21/20 - "Attribution Model Update" announced
01/25/20 - friend reached out for custom request for her son's first birthday onesie
01/26/20 - I designed 5 separate baby bodysuits for a friend (all direct only)
01/27/20 - I sent the 5 links to my friend
01/28/20 - She made an account & put the design in her cart
~ I'm assuming Zazzle started emailing her in between here ~
01/30/20 am - My friend ordered option #4
01/30/20 pm - saw order posted in my Earnings & Transactions History and it said it's a 3rd party sale
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:56:04 AM
@RoyK - This is one of the first pages that a possible new associate would see: https://www.zazzle.com/sell/affiliates

I see no notice that after 7 days your cookie may be over ridden. Nor do I see a link to the Associate Policy to learn more.

The second link I might check would be to their share a sale membership: https://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=49310

Again no mention and no link to the agreement.

So the agreement is something one has to hunt for before signing up. IDK, it's just my opinion that they could and should be more transparent.

At least that way people would not feel so ... underminded ...

I know I was shocked that I had to pay myself for my own "self" affiliate sales. Saying that we can earn 15% on top of our royalty is in my opinion, misleading. I lose from my royalty to help pay for my affiliating. Bad taste in mouth. And Zazzle take 5% from my royalty for themselves.

A great change that Zazzle could make would be that self referrals don't generate a loss from Royalty to pay for Self Referrals. As an artist/designer and associate, that would be an improvement.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:58:26 AM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
I just went through my conversations & emails. Please tell me if you see where Zazzle could have slipped into the ordeal.

01/21/20 - "Attribution Model Update" announced
01/25/20 - friend reached out for custom request for her son's first birthday onesie
01/26/20 - I designed 5 separate baby bodysuits for a friend (all direct only)
01/27/20 - I sent the 5 links to my friend
01/28/20 - She made an account & put the design in her cart
~ I'm assuming Zazzle started emailing her in between here ~
01/30/20 am - My friend ordered option #4
01/30/20 pm - saw order posted in my Earnings & Transactions History and it said it's a 3rd party sale


Was the product sold at full price or was it sold on sale?

That pop up when you first come to the site is probably tied to a ref id. Zazzles

Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 10:59:58 AM
JB Designs wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
I just went through my conversations & emails. Please tell me if you see where Zazzle could have slipped into the ordeal.

01/21/20 - "Attribution Model Update" announced
01/25/20 - friend reached out for custom request for her son's first birthday onesie
01/26/20 - I designed 5 separate baby bodysuits for a friend (all direct only)
01/27/20 - I sent the 5 links to my friend
01/28/20 - She made an account & put the design in her cart
~ I'm assuming Zazzle started emailing her in between here ~
01/30/20 am - My friend ordered option #4
01/30/20 pm - saw order posted in my Earnings & Transactions History and it said it's a 3rd party sale


Was the product sold at full price or was it sold on sale?

That pop up when you first come to the site is probably tied to a ref id. Zazzles



I actually told her about the current sale and also gave her the promo code which was "ZAZWEEKDAY20" 20% off at the time.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 11:02:57 AM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
I just went through my conversations & emails. Please tell me if you see where Zazzle could have slipped into the ordeal.

01/21/20 - "Attribution Model Update" announced
01/25/20 - friend reached out for custom request for her son's first birthday onesie
01/26/20 - I designed 5 separate baby bodysuits for a friend (all direct only)
01/27/20 - I sent the 5 links to my friend
Friend clicks links on mobile.
01/28/20 - She made an account Zazzle starts email with registration. & put the design in her cart
~ I'm assuming Zazzle started emailing her in between here ~
Friend visits Z on desktop.
Orders something else.
Friend receives Order Confirmation email.
Friend clicks Order Confirmation link.
01/30/20 am - My friend ordered option #4
01/30/20 pm - saw order posted in my Earnings & Transactions History and it said it's a 3rd party sale

I think you mentioned that you recommend Zazzle Black, so ordering something else outside of the order of the Onesie wouldn't be out of the question, right?

Obviously not saying that's how it happened. Just going through the tech aspects of how it can happen. If we're signed in on mobile, something in the cart would also appear in the cart on signed-in desktop. The cookie on mobile could potentially transfer to desktop, but only if certain browser syncing options between the user's mobile and desktop devices are enabled.

It's murky, at best.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 11:05:24 AM
JB Designs wrote:
That pop up when you first come to the site is probably tied to a ref id.

Kymberli said the TC was tc=emc_OrderConfirmationV2. That's why I went there.

The Welcome to Zazzle email is tc=emc_WelcomeNewSubscriber_Email_Promo. I think that's the one from the pop-up box.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 11:08:26 AM
JB Designs wrote:
@RoyK - This is one of the first pages that a possible new associate would see: https://www.zazzle.com/sell/affiliates

I see no notice that after 7 days your cookie may be over ridden. Nor do I see a link to the Associate Policy to learn more.

The second link I might check would be to their share a sale membership: https://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=49310

Again no mention and no link to the agreement.

So the agreement is something one has to hunt for before signing up. IDK, it's just my opinion that they could and should be more transparent.

At least that way people would not feel so ... underminded ...

I know I was shocked that I had to pay myself for my own "self" affiliate sales. Saying that we can earn 15% on top of our royalty is in my opinion, misleading. I lose from my royalty to help pay for my affiliating. Bad taste in mouth. And Zazzle take 5% from my royalty for themselves.

A great change that Zazzle could make would be that self referrals don't generate a loss from Royalty to pay for Self Referrals. As an artist/designer and associate, that would be an improvement.

I agree with all of that, except that SaS is my least favorite interface, so I can't say anymore what they might have on their site. Just saying that legally, the terms disclose the over writing portion of the program. Practically, I agree - murky and we don't realize it until we've made at least some amount of time investment into the program.


Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 11:09:56 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
I just went through my conversations & emails. Please tell me if you see where Zazzle could have slipped into the ordeal.

01/21/20 - "Attribution Model Update" announced
01/25/20 - friend reached out for custom request for her son's first birthday onesie
01/26/20 - I designed 5 separate baby bodysuits for a friend (all direct only)
01/27/20 - I sent the 5 links to my friend
Friend clicks links on mobile.
01/28/20 - She made an account Zazzle starts email with registration. & put the design in her cart
~ I'm assuming Zazzle started emailing her in between here ~
Friend clicks visits Z on desktop.
Orders something else.
Friend receives Order Confirmation email.
Friend clicks Order Confirmation link.
01/30/20 am - My friend ordered option #4
01/30/20 pm - saw order posted in my Earnings & Transactions History and it said it's a 3rd party sale

I think you mentioned that you recommend Zazzle Black, so ordering something else outside of the order of the Onesie wouldn't be out of the question, right?

Obviously not saying that's how it happened. Just going through the tech aspects of how it can happen. If we're signed in on mobile, something in the cart would also appear in the cart on signed-in desktop. The cookie on mobile could potentially transfer to desktop, but only if certain browser syncing options between the user's mobile and desktop devices are enabled.

It's murky, at best.


Yea you're right. I mentioned the Zazzle Black more so for future purchases because she was telling me she had no idea of all the different types of products Zazzle has to offer, she has 2 little boys and you could tell the wheels where starting to turn in her head for all the things she can do on Zazzle lol. What you highlighted in red is the only logical explanation of how this happened to me. I don't want to think Zazzle has it out for our referrals but it certainly feels like it. It's always a punch in the gut for me.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 1:02:27 PM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
It's always a punch in the gut for me.


yes, that is exactly how it feels when we have gone to all kinds of trouble to bring a sale in and try to earn a referral to have it yanked out from under us this way.

And in this case you not only lost the referral you should have earned but you also paid 20% of your royalty to Zazzle for the so called 3rd party sale.

In this instance it is easy to see that Zazzle did not bring the sale to the website so they should not have gotten either the referral or the 3rd party carve out.

This customer was already at Zazzle when Zazzle email overrode the real referral cookie.

Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 1:12:56 PM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Yea you're right. I mentioned the Zazzle Black more so for future purchases because she was telling me she had no idea of all the different types of products Zazzle has to offer, she has 2 little boys and you could tell the wheels where starting to turn in her head for all the things she can do on Zazzle lol. What you highlighted in red is the only logical explanation of how this happened to me. I don't want to think Zazzle has it out for our referrals but it certainly feels like it. It's always a punch in the gut for me.

My example is logical and could happen from a tech viewpoint, but from a "spirit of the program" viewpoint, an Order Confirmation email is not the procuring cause of the sale and definitely not the procuring cause of the customer. Ever.

If your steps + my steps are true, then it should've been a NONE sale or maybe a true Affiliate from some other prior link maybe she doesn't remember she clicked (inadvertently even) at some point in the last 45 days. If where I typo'd "Friend clicks visits Z on desktop," she clicked your link, it should've been your Referral.

In any event, Order Confirmation is a hard NO as a valid "affiliate" in my book.


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