New attribution model - true or false? 5 pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 12:59:55 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Jules wrote:
Oh no! So does that mean those long gobbledegook tracking codes are Zazzle referrals as well?

There isn't any way to say with 100-percent certainty that a specific gobbledegook tracking code is from a Zazzle ad, but I know personally of only a handful of Designers/Affiliates who use paid ad campaigns, especially on Google. (That doesn't mean there aren't more; it means I don't know of them!)

Occasionally when I'm researching, I go to Google Shopping, get links, and decrypt the encoded version to see the RF ID in them. Since the new way is to leave the decrypted info in the URL bar, no decryption tool is required these days.

- Go to Google, search Zazzle, click Shopping
- Click a Product
- Click into the URL bar and look for the TC or RF

I'm on Chrome; may be different for other browsers.



Thank you RoyK. That process works on Firefox too. It enabled me to "match" a portion of the tracking codes to some of those on the sales emails I keep, so I can confirm for myself that they are indeed Zazzle ad TCs.
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 1:06:21 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:

IMO, advertising is a cost of doing business. It shouldn't be on you or me to pay it for them. Period.

I don't know if you were around when we lost the original volume bonus program back in July 2013 or if you had worked your way up to earning a volume bonus at that time. When that happened I personally lost approximately a third of my earnings and have never recovered. Not only did I lose 33% of my earnings, after that sales have continually dropped.

The reason I bring this up is because we were told at the time that it would eventually benefit designers because Zazzle could invest more in promotion and advertising, bringing in more traffic thus bringing in more sales. It never benefited designers, sales dropped. And then we learn that designers have been paying for their promotion and advertising anyway.

RoyK_is_a_She wrote:

Again, their ad costs shouldn't be my problem. My opinion.

I don't consider that an opinion. That reads like a fact to me.
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 1:26:10 PM
Jerry wrote:
I don't know if you were around when we lost the original volume bonus program back in July 2013 or if you had worked your way up to earning a volume bonus at that time. When that happened I personally lost approximately a third of my earnings and have never recovered. Not only did I lose 33% of my earnings, after that sales have continually dropped.

The reason I bring this up is because we were told at the time that it would eventually benefit designers because Zazzle could invest more in promotion and advertising, bringing in more traffic thus bringing in more sales. It never benefited designers, sales dropped. And then we learn that designers have been paying for their promotion and advertising anyway.

2007 alum here. ;) I wasn't very serious about Z those many early years, but I did make VB occasionally. My last good VB was December 2012.

I've heard other Designers tell similar stories to yours, and combined with my own experiences, I am inclined to question everything. Add to that not getting answers when we ask valid questions, the casual way we are encouraged to accept paying for Secondary, and on an on... I've said before, if Zazzle wants to be trustworthy, they should act in a trustworthy manner. I don't expect trade secrets or for the business plan to be published, but as a business myself, I need to understand what I'm getting myself into. I have to look at both potential positive and negative aspects of a newly implemented endeavor. We all should be doing that, and we shouldn't be labeled as negative just because we question the status quo. My opinion.
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 1:34:18 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
and we shouldn't be labeled as negative just because we question the status quo. My opinion.


ironically, not just your opinion

remember recently somebody posted a YouTube clip of Bobby Beaver saying that very thing?



https://youtu.be/IN2iPiwOho8
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 2:01:31 PM
It's funny to try and support something that Zazzle has done here in the forum.

I'm on my 3rd version of this post.

I respect so many of you and appreciate the lessons history has taught you. I am also appreciative of the things I've learned from you and the help you've given me.

There are so many perspectives... but I just wanted to share that I am happy with this cookie change. Maybe there are negatives to it depending on your business model, how you interact with customers, etc. But for me, I'm happy about it. I now get a week, as opposed to 30 mins, for that customer to buy through my link.

Hopefully Zazzle can provide more tools or update some of the sharing functionalities that will make affiliating more rewarding. Add more socials to the website and not just the app. Maybe other changes can be made to some of there policies. Time will tell. I for one am impressed by their affiliate/marketing power. I research them, what they do and how they do it and learn little tips through observations on... I'd say a monthly basis. And I've learned a lot about their email campaigns and how important an email email campaign can be for a business. And I've learned about using tracking codes too. This post has been an interesting read.

It will be interesting to see how they change their email campaigns with this change. Since for 7 days, they don't stand to get the referral.

Cheers

Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 4:50:36 PM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
and we shouldn't be labeled as negative just because we question the status quo. My opinion.


ironically, not just your opinion

remember recently somebody posted a YouTube clip of Bobby Beaver saying that very thing?



https://youtu.be/IN2iPiwOho8


Ha! That's priceless
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 10:43:08 AM
Dale M. Boyce wrote:
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
and we shouldn't be labeled as negative just because we question the status quo. My opinion.


ironically, not just your opinion

remember recently somebody posted a YouTube clip of Bobby Beaver saying that very thing?



https://youtu.be/IN2iPiwOho8


Ha! That's priceless

Agree!
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 10:48:05 AM
JB Designs wrote:
It will be interesting to see how they change their email campaigns with this change. Since for 7 days, they don't stand to get the referral.

And on the 8th day... Zazzle sent an email. ;)

JB Designs wrote:
It's funny to try and support something that Zazzle has done here in the forum.

I'm on my 3rd version of this post.

I respect so many of you and appreciate the lessons history has taught you. I am also appreciative of the things I've learned from you and the help you've given me.

There are so many perspectives... but I just wanted to share that I am happy with this cookie change. Maybe there are negatives to it depending on your business model, how you interact with customers, etc. But for me, I'm happy about it. I now get a week, as opposed to 30 mins, for that customer to buy through my link.

Almost everything I write here is drafted multiple times. Where you are frustrated with a positive comment, I am frustrated trying to say something that is going to be taken as a negative, but that I feel is just protecting my own interests. Again, just trying to put facts/perspectives out there. Not intended to be directed at you, personally, or to bash your perspective. ;)

I'm glad you are happy with the change. Let's hope that it truly is beneficial to Designers and true Affiliates!
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:13:40 PM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
JB Designs wrote:
It will be interesting to see how they change their email campaigns with this change. Since for 7 days, they don't stand to get the referral.

And on the 8th day... Zazzle sent an email. ;)

JB Designs wrote:
It's funny to try and support something that Zazzle has done here in the forum.

I'm on my 3rd version of this post.

I respect so many of you and appreciate the lessons history has taught you. I am also appreciative of the things I've learned from you and the help you've given me.

There are so many perspectives... but I just wanted to share that I am happy with this cookie change. Maybe there are negatives to it depending on your business model, how you interact with customers, etc. But for me, I'm happy about it. I now get a week, as opposed to 30 mins, for that customer to buy through my link.

Almost everything I write here is drafted multiple times. Where you are frustrated with a positive comment, I am frustrated trying to say something that is going to be taken as a negative, but that I feel is just protecting my own interests. Again, just trying to put facts/perspectives out there. Not intended to be directed at you, personally, or to bash your perspective. ;)

I'm glad you are happy with the change. Let's hope that it truly is beneficial to Designers and true Affiliates!


No worries. I have not taken anything written in response to me as an attack. There are others out there, not in this thread, that write a little differently from time to time.

Although I still take the stand as saying that it is challenging to support something Zazzle has done.

I personally think that it will help in my designer affiliating, but in the larger scheme of affiliating I've already decided that affiliating for others besides Zazzle has become a better option for me. It is too bad to because 15% is a decent percent for affiliating. And I had a great thing growing with Zazzle and Pinterest, but threw both of their actions, it is no longer as quick and therefore receives less of my time. I imagine that others feel the same. Hopefully Zazzle can do even more for true affiliates, and to entice those of us that could have been, to keep at it or to return.

Cheers
Posted: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:36:05 AM
🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
James wrote:
Our promo emails work in the same way one of your associate links do though. If we bring the traffic to the website, why would someone else reap the rewards? Same as if one of your links brings a cst to pillows on Monday, signs up for newsletter on Tuesday; gets a promo email Wednesday to revisit and bring them back. Thats within a week right? So you still get the referral as you initially brought them to us. Seems pretty fair to me. Believe it or not, this model was altered with designers in mind. Love


When one of those email links does overwrite an associate referral id Zazzle not only reaps the referral that the original link would have gotten but also counts themselves as a third party sale and reaps the referral carve out from the royalty of the designer of the product. How is this fair?

Whether the window of time is 30 minutes or 7 days why does Zazzle affiliate for themselves and call themselves a third party?

Already Zazzle reaps the sales and lion’s share of the profits. But that isn’t enough?


+1
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:03:48 AM
When is this taking affect? I sent a direct only link to a friend on Monday, she purchased, and surprise, surprise... the sale came up as a 3rd party sale! I was the one that introduced her to Zazzle, she didn't know about it until me. I brought the customer and sold her a private, direct only link (with my referral attached). How does this happen? It is impossible for me to ever earn a darn referral! Why do I even bother? I CAN NOT WAIT to see what the tracking code comes back as, grrrrrrrr
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:18:12 AM
I have no idea how this will really impact anyone's affiliating - it could slightly distribute some affiliate $ overall, at the same time Z would probably have the same rules on their own advertising links - so who knows? A number cruncher with all the incoming links does : ) Theoretically it reads nicely though Smile


What I would REALLY appreciate, is a way to at least guarantee a referral for items that designers have created or customized on request of a customer. Just this week I (created a new product for someone who reached out via chat, and the sale just came through NO referral credited at all.

I understand that the referrals "can't" work within the Zazzle site/chat, but I really shouldn't have to post the link on a personal site or have to ask for their email directly in order to capture a referral for that.
It wasn't really something that would warrant charging the customer personally (mostly I transferred an existing design and slightly edited to fit that new template, and answered some questions about the product in general - I still spent an hour directly for that customer).

It would be a nice benefit to designers who have made themselves accessible in this way to have some sort of product-tied referral guaranteed with the purchase.

IF a person who initiated a chat with a designer purchases an item that was created since the chat initiated, the designer posting that product should at least get a 15% referral. And actually, since the Promoter Program is going, they really should get that 30/35% without having to post it somewhere off Zazzle first (which wouldn't actually play nice with existing referral rules).

No idea if that's possible, as I understand that one customer could have been chatting with and purchasing products from several different Zazzle stores. But some kind of something where if we actively help with or create something via chat should result in an extra kind of bonus/payment when a purchase is made as a result. That would be fantastic since it seems most referrals and royalty payments are processed on an item-by-item basis already.
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2020 11:09:47 AM
PaperGrape wrote:


What I would REALLY appreciate, is a way to at least guarantee a referral for items that designers have created or customized on request of a customer....


This ^^^
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2020 4:07:58 AM
Lynn-Marie Gildersleeve wrote:
PaperGrape wrote:


What I would REALLY appreciate, is a way to at least guarantee a referral for items that designers have created or customized on request of a customer....


This ^^^


I completely agree! I spent a couple hours of my Sunday night designing 5 different baby onesies for my friend thinking to myself "all this work for like $1.50... oh well at least my referral will add to it"... only to find out someone hijacked my referral, if my link was private that only leaves it to Zazzle taking it Crying
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 7:11:03 PM
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Lynn-Marie Gildersleeve wrote:
PaperGrape wrote:


What I would REALLY appreciate, is a way to at least guarantee a referral for items that designers have created or customized on request of a customer....


This ^^^


I completely agree! I spent a couple hours of my Sunday night designing 5 different baby onesies for my friend thinking to myself "all this work for like $1.50... oh well at least my referral will add to it"... only to find out someone hijacked my referral, if my link was private that only leaves it to Zazzle taking it Crying


That is so not right. I just got into the promoter program, and I have a link that I'm going to be sending to a friend, as she wants to purchase a couple posters with my designs on them. I will be far from happy if I don't get the referral.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:22:19 AM
Karen Coffelt wrote:
Kymberli_Designs wrote:
Lynn-Marie Gildersleeve wrote:
PaperGrape wrote:


What I would REALLY appreciate, is a way to at least guarantee a referral for items that designers have created or customized on request of a customer....


This ^^^


I completely agree! I spent a couple hours of my Sunday night designing 5 different baby onesies for my friend thinking to myself "all this work for like $1.50... oh well at least my referral will add to it"... only to find out someone hijacked my referral, if my link was private that only leaves it to Zazzle taking it Crying


That is so not right. I just got into the promoter program, and I have a link that I'm going to be sending to a friend, as she wants to purchase a couple posters with my designs on them. I will be far from happy if I don't get the referral.


The referrals have really been my one and only problem with Zazzle since day 1. I get my referrals from people I know maybe 10% of the time so I was very happy to see that they were changing the rules... but the same thing is happening to me the same week they announced the change so what the hell? My earning are such a slow crawl I really rely on the times I send directly only links only to have them taken out from under me. Looking at my current royal history page, I have 20 3rd party referrals out of 25, the other 5 are “none”. I also keep track of every single tracking code I get in my emails... they are always Zazzle’s tracking codes. I understand Zazzle is a business but their designers make so little as it is, 10% of a sale and with 3rd partys always taking part of that 10% sucks. I’ve read some designers have their friends cancel their order and then reorder but I’m not having my friends/clients do that.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:29:08 AM
I noticed in the news forum post that there is no effective date.

I would assume that because they posted it publicly, that the change had taken effect.

But with many reporting losing referrals to 3rd party (assumed to be Zazzle) in the last week perhaps we need to ask




@Zazzle - When did/does this new policy change take effect?
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 7:38:17 AM
JB Designs wrote:
I noticed in the news forum post that there is no effective date.

I would assume that because they posted it publicly, that the change had taken effect.

But with many reporting losing referrals to 3rd party (assumed to be Zazzle) in the last week perhaps we need to ask




@Zazzle - When did/does this new policy change take effect?


or is Jerry right?

Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 10:55:43 AM
JB Designs wrote:
But with many reporting losing referrals to 3rd party (assumed to be Zazzle) in the last week perhaps we need to ask

@Zazzle - When did/does this new policy change take effect?

Based on my Earnings immediately following this, I believe it's in effect. But we won't know for sure whether there are a variety of true affiliates and who got what until we get our sales notification emails, right? A month or so into it, we'll get a better feel, I think.

🌼Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
or is Jerry right?

Well. If Z hits them up with an email a day, then eventually they will consider themselves the procuring party and that cookie will be set by them. And again. And again...

The more I think on it, it's the same situ as since 2012-13 with a longer window. We have to catch the window when it's open (first-time buyer or after 7 days and 1 minute but before they get someone else's link), and then on the 8th day (and 9th, and 10th...), Zazzle sends an email. As always, our link has to be first link ever, we get a week (which IS better than 30 minutes), and then Zazzle gets the cookies over and over in perpetuity.


Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 12:13:31 PM
I have been in affiliate marketing since the very beginning and was a Zazzle affiliate long before being a designer. I have just returned from Affiliate Summit, which is THE conference for affiliates and affiliate managers to attend. Many companies are now adopting the policy that affiliates only get paid for bringing in brand new customers. If a customer purchased something, ever, no matter how long ago, no commission is paid. Not saying I like it or agree with it, but it is very common these days. Once you lose that initial cookie, no additional commissions are paid. A few companies give like a six-month cookie because of that.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 12:35:56 PM
Nellie wrote:
I have been in affiliate marketing since the very beginning and was a Zazzle affiliate long before being a designer. I have just returned from Affiliate Summit, which is THE conference for affiliates and affiliate managers to attend. Many companies are now adopting the policy that affiliates only get paid for bringing in brand new customers. If a customer purchased something, ever, no matter how long ago, no commission is paid. Not saying I like it or agree with it, but it is very common these days. Once you lose that initial cookie, no additional commissions are paid. A few companies give like a six-month cookie because of that.

This has been the case for many affiliate programs for a long time. I participate in some where the lowest return is much, much higher than even a high return here. But that's not Zazzle's program - it's always been sale driven and not customer driven. I predict (and I don't do that often) such a change would cause Z's affiliate program to tank. Who is going to spend time pushing 100+ links for a potential return of 6 cents on a button?

The majority of "associate" links in their emails are already just a swipe of 20% of our Royalties off the top, but if they adopted the customer-procuring model over the sale-procuring model, it would just confirm that their reasoning has nothing to do with tracking and everything to do with revenue.



Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 1:18:36 PM
That is just what people here are describing. The number of ways to lose a commission is huge here. I don't even consider the revenue from a referral in my biz plan here anymore. While I always include a rf link, I just hope it leads to a sale.

I have even gotten to the point where I expect an automatic loss 20 percent for a third party sale - and that most of those come from Zazzle. In my mind it is an advertising/marketing expense.
Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 2:22:17 PM
Nellie wrote:
That is just what people here are describing. The number of ways to lose a commission is huge here. I don't even consider the revenue from a referral in my biz plan here anymore. While I always include a rf link, I just hope it leads to a sale.

I have even gotten to the point where I expect an automatic loss 20 percent for a third party sale - and that most of those come from Zazzle. In my mind it is an advertising/marketing expense.

THEIR marketing expense. ;) Sure wish I had someone I could fall back on to recoup my business expenses.

I can't argue with that business plan.

Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 3:08:16 PM
Nellie wrote:
That is just what people here are describing. The number of ways to lose a commission is huge here. I don't even consider the revenue from a referral in my biz plan here anymore. While I always include a rf link, I just hope it leads to a sale.

I have even gotten to the point where I expect an automatic loss 20 percent for a third party sale - and that most of those come from Zazzle. In my mind it is an advertising/marketing expense.


Well I don't expect to have to pay for Zazzle's business expenses. I am providing free advertising and marketing for them and it is not too much to ask that their affiliate program make it worth the effort by not overwriting our links and shaving our referral income.

Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 6:07:17 AM
Exactly Shelli! I do my own marketing on FB, Instagram, & pintrest. My friend saw my designs and asked me to make her something custom so I did. I took the time and did it, sent a direct link, yet somehow Zazzle always wins. I even recommend Zazzle Black to all my customers/clients! Wish there was a way to make some kind of commission on that... not that I would ever see those referrals lol.

I get that Zazzle also brings customers to their site, but they have the advantage of having access to those 1,000,000+ emails of clients, we don't. I only have the handful of clients that I brought myself, yet I still don't get my referral where it's due.
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 7:44:07 AM
Quote:
I get that Zazzle also brings customers to their site, but they have the advantage of having access to those 1,000,000+ emails of clients, we don't. I only have the handful of clients that I brought myself, yet I still don't get my referral where it's due

This is the core of the issue. Zazzle has completely dominated and removed the competition of other affiliates by hijacking the referral code system.
It's not just designers and their customer base but also other larger affiliates...it's a totally unfair business practice.
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 10:59:43 AM
Digitalbcon wrote:
Quote:
I get that Zazzle also brings customers to their site, but they have the advantage of having access to those 1,000,000+ emails of clients, we don't. I only have the handful of clients that I brought myself, yet I still don't get my referral where it's due

This is the core of the issue. Zazzle has completely dominated and removed the competition of other affiliates by hijacking the referral code system.
It's not just designers and their customer base but also other larger affiliates...it's a totally unfair business practice.

Promo emails AND every administrative email.

On top of that, I'm pretty sure their ad budget is larger than mine, so every Google, Bing, Pinterest, etc. ad is something I can't compete with.
Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 2:37:08 PM
I don't see any FTC disclaimers regarding any of the emails Zazzle sends that contain their affiliaite codes
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 6:15:41 AM
Harmony wrote:
I don't see any FTC disclaimers regarding any of the emails Zazzle sends that contain their affiliaite codes


I thought about this for a bit and I think they don't have to.

I know we think about our products as ours, but they are actually Zazzles and as such there is no need to disclose.

Although disclosing the fact that cookies can be over ridden in the Associates Program public page, how the program works, should be done in my opinion.

It lists a cookie length of 45 days. Which may be true. But there is no disclosure that cookies can be over ridden. If I were a new affiliate and learned that after signing up, I would feel deceived.
Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 6:41:34 AM
Mine are overwritten 95% of the time, I find it almost impossible for myself to ever earn a referral. Just doesn't seem fair.

Looking at my last 100 sales in the royalty history under the referred column:
81 are "3rd party"
17 are "none"
2 are "self"

I don't even want to try and figure out how much $ I am missing out on with 81 3rd Party sales! Crying

I have links on Instagram, Facebook, & Pinterest. Something just doesn't add up.
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