James' announcement in News Forum 11/13/19 10:46 pm 15 pages: First ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 10:59:36 AM
sugarhai wrote:

Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.


but do they gain copyright to the "new" collaborative content that they have created using our designs?

Quote:
6.1.5.1. The Collaboration Initiator is only granted the aforementioned rights in the Collaborative Content, and not to any of the Assets provided by any other Collaborators.


only in the collaborative content could mean the "new" design created from using our marketplace products

I think it would be better to write up different sets of terms for everything you have going on

terms for downloadable content, terms for collaborative content starting from a blank product, and terms for collaborative content starting from marketplace products, and whatever else it going on

why do we need to agree to granting users copyrights to collaborative content if they can't actually get rights to that content?

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content submitted to the Site. However, (snip) you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6).



Add a "in its own" and the meaning becomes obvious.
Why do I add a "on its own" to it when it is not written?
Because in 6.1.5 it says:
Quote:
ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE


Each asset on its own keeps its initial license whether it is CC0 or All Rights Reserved or anything in between. Together "AS CONTAINED" the initiator gets all those rights provided the provider of those assets has the right to give these rights to the initiator.

The initiator gets these rights for the combined work.

In my example:

So if someone had initiated a collaboration with this:

A


And the in progress would be this:
B


This element was added:


So the initiator has the right to B because it is a combination of A plus the heart swirl in yellow and the Chinese character was moved to the center. But it would have been enough to add any asset.

The initiator wouldn't get the license to use A because any asset on its own retains its initial rights.

Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:20:44 PM
Quote:
The initiator gets these rights for the combined work.


that is how it reads to me as well, it would be better to have two sections, one that says (below is the agreement edited, not what it says now)

Quote:
6.1.5.

When starting from a blank product the copyright to any new...blah, blah

and then

When starting from an existing product in the marketplace the copyright...blah, all the good stuff designers love in a contract that protects their rights...


and also

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content published as “Post for Sale”. (snip) However, when submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on a blank product you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6)

When submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on an existing product in the marketplace no license or ownership rights are granted.
something like that, could be better but I have to go for now!

Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:53:53 PM
sugarhai wrote:


why do we need to agree to granting users copyrights to collaborative content if they can't actually get rights to that content?

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content submitted to the Site. However, (snip) you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6).






yes, very good question!
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:57:23 PM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
The initiator gets these rights for the combined work.


that is how it reads to me as well, it would be better to have two sections, one that says (below is the agreement edited, not what it says now)

Quote:
6.1.5.

When starting from a blank product the copyright to any new...blah, blah

and then

When starting from an existing product in the marketplace the copyright...blah, all the good stuff designers love in a contract that protects their rights...


and also

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content published as “Post for Sale”. (snip) However, when submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on a blank product you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6)

When submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on an existing product in the marketplace no license or ownership rights are granted.
something like that, could be better but I have to go for now!



you have my vote for this...

and I still want opt outs.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 9:48:49 PM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
The initiator gets these rights for the combined work.


that is how it reads to me as well, it would be better to have two sections, one that says (below is the agreement edited, not what it says now)

Quote:
6.1.5.

When starting from a blank product the copyright to any new...blah, blah

and then

When starting from an existing product in the marketplace the copyright...blah, all the good stuff designers love in a contract that protects their rights...


and also

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content published as “Post for Sale”. (snip) However, when submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on a blank product you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6)

When submitting Content for use in a Collaboration on an existing product in the marketplace no license or ownership rights are granted.
something like that, could be better but I have to go for now!



And they did it. 6.1.5 only defines the collaborative content and

Quote:
6.1.8.1. The copyright to any Collaborative Content that results from a "new" Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”) (i.e., starting from a blank template and not utilizing any Public Product(s), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators under 17 U.S. Code Title 17, but each hereby agrees that THE RIGHT TO EXPLOIT THE COPYRIGHT TO THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE, AS A "PUBLIC" PRODUCT SHALL BE EXCLUSIVE TO THE INITIATOR OF THE RELEVANT COLLABORATION SESSION (“Collaboration Initiator”). EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE.

Emphasis added.
That is bi-unique.

26.2(ii) stays the same and considering that the create tool still offers FB banners and allowing FB banners requires to give a worldwide sublicensable and transferable license so FB is allowed to use it. So that 26.2(ii) still in it is hardly surprising. The create tool is no longer advertised with do whatever you want wherever you want. That is nice for the rest of the zazzle site.
Smile



EDIT I
Good news for digital content creator:
Quote:
3.2.5.9. This Download License does not include the right to display the Content for download or export, resell, license or otherwise distribute for profit that Content, including, without limitation, through other print-on-demand services, and you hereby agree not to use the Content in any such manner that competes with Zazzle’s business.



EDIT II
Quote:
7.2. Any image(s), accompanying text, social media handle, name, inquiries, feedback, suggestions, ideas or other information you provide to us by using any variation of the hashtag #ZazzleShowandTell and/or #ZazzleMade (collectively, "Tagged Media") will be treated as non-proprietary and non-confidential. For good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which you hereby acknowledge, by uploading, posting, e-mailing or otherwise submitting Tagged Media to Zazzle, its social media account(s) and/or the Site, you grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to Zazzle an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use, telecast, copy, perform, display, reproduce, edit, distribute, copy, change, modify, add to, subtract from and otherwise exploit the Tagged Media, or any portion thereof, in any manner (including without limitation promotional and advertising purposes) and in any media now known or hereafter devised, and to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such Tagged Media, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing without any compensation to you or to any third party. For the sake of clarity, this license does not allow Zazzle to use your Tagged Media to create a Public Product.

Emphasis added

I never thought that you would add a tagged images as a public product. You still want to have the right to use it in any manner. Not that I think this clause holds any water because of the way the #tags work in the wild, "any manner" still translates something close to CC0. Who ever is writing your terms really tends to overreach and do more harm than good.

As I understand it, zazzle, you want to use it for promotion, so why don't you just add this to your "any manner". Though you still risk to run into trouble somewhere along the road, simply because the way tags work in the wild, but luckily that isn't my problem.

Happy
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:40:07 AM
Quote:
(i.e., starting from a blank template and not utilizing any Public Product(s)


wow! Love Love Love

thank you zazzle
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 1:14:36 PM
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 1:41:20 PM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses



Love

+1
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 4:43:12 PM
On finally getting there with the new terms.


Did somebody (z) expect a thank you?

On getting to these new terms. It shouldn't have had to go so far and there have been a couple of critics of certain posters and of the alleged "panicers" after the terms started getting changed. Some worked hard and took punches. Thank you. Some tried to find a balance and took punches. Thank you. The question remains where was the point where the criticism and the deletions and hidings tipped the scale and got the reaction and changes? How much unneccessary damage was done to relationships and businesses and finances?
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:45:01 PM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses


+1 Roses Love Roses Love
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:45:21 PM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses


+1
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 10:10:43 PM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses


Yes thank you! Roses
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 10:18:28 PM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses


Roses Love Roses Love Roses
Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2019 11:52:22 PM
Vivendules, I have been following your threads and answers to designers questions for a long time now re New Zazzles User Agreement. I appreciate and acknowledge your time and monies spent plus the relentless effort you have put out there to challenge the Users Agreement for Designers! Due credit to you! Ps It is not my forte unfortunately! Jilly
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 2:57:18 AM
-·-

Love
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 6:40:18 AM
orientcourt wrote:
Vivendules, I have been following your threads and answers to designers questions for a long time now re New Zazzles User Agreement. I appreciate and acknowledge your time and monies spent plus the relentless effort you have put out there to challenge the Users Agreement for Designers! Due credit to you! Ps It is not my forte unfortunately! Jilly

+1

ETA: None of this should ever have happened and, certainly, even if there were some minor issues, it shouldn't have escalated to the point it did.

Zazzle isn't some newcomer with no experience. Such narrow protection - for Z alone - doesn't serve even them. They should always have considered ALL of their business assets, of which Designers are a part.
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 7:51:37 AM
DogwoodAndThistle wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for their relentless analysis of the new terms; it has been appreciated! Roses


Love Love Love
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 11:19:15 AM
Love Love Love

You all are the BEST!! Thank you for the ohhhh so many long hours you have spent here, enduring through all the mishmash, answering our questions and most importantly being a united voice when Zazz was silent for way too long. The network of designers here is why I am here, because they are not only caring but always supportive - day or night one of you is here to help!

If I could I would be bringing donuts and wine as a thank you but all I can do is send my heartfelt thanks and many hugs.

Happy turkey day!
xoxo
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 12:59:20 PM
just adding my thank you to vivendulies and the others who read and explained the terms to us all

Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:02:31 PM
Adding mine too xxx

Royk, Shelli and Vivendules - you are all a bright light in the darkness.

Thank you Love Roses Love
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:03:57 PM
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:
If I could I would be bringing donuts and wine ...

Everyone is welcome from me Love , but @Ohhhilovethat wins! Grin
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:38:24 PM
mothersdaisy wrote:
Adding mine too xxx

Royk, Shelli and Vivendules - you are all a bright light in the darkness.

Thank you Love Roses Love


+1 ThanksRoses Love Love Love
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:03:53 PM
you are more than welcome, my kindred creative soulsSmile
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2019 4:05:28 PM
sugarhai wrote:
just adding my thank you to vivendulies and the others who read and explained the terms to us all



and thank you also!
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2019 10:58:52 AM
Roses Roses Roses Love
Posted: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:04:52 PM
adding my thanks to the bunch!Love
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:28:02 AM
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:
Love Love Love

You all are the BEST!! Thank you for the ohhhh so many long hours you have spent here, enduring through all the mishmash, answering our questions and most importantly being a united voice when Zazz was silent for way too long. The network of designers here is why I am here, because they are not only caring but always supportive - day or night one of you is here to help!

If I could I would be bringing donuts and wine as a thank you but all I can do is send my heartfelt thanks and many hugs.

Happy turkey day!
xoxo


+1. Thanks so much "vocal few" ;)
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:01:37 AM
I'm adding my BIG thank you as well. It was difficult to understand the "legal jargon" and I really appreciated the time and (huge) effort but in by those already mentioned. It helped to clarify and underscored its importance.

Love
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 12:23:35 PM
Roses Add me to the list of Zazzlers grateful to 'the vocal few'! I sincerely doubt any changes at all would have been implemented without them.

Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 6:13:36 PM
Not enough changes, I've been checking back, I have everything hidden--though still getting some sales, more than normal months but not holiday numbers. I've started going through and deleting things I know are useless. Frisbies, trinket thingies etc, things I never sell.

But I might as well stop, without an opt out I just don't feel comfortable being here. I'd hoped things would be otherwise.

d
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