James' announcement in News Forum 11/13/19 10:46 pm 15 pages: First ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 6:56:03 PM
I don't have time to scan this right now, but I thought I'd share.

Herding Christmas Cats
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 10:33:02 PM
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 10:39:46 PM
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.



Did we get opt outs?

No?
Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2019 11:43:29 PM
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:11:57 AM
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 12:48:50 AM
Terri wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?


"Designer terms 22nd NOV19" wrote:
Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content." Primary Content published by a Designer as “Post for Sale” will not be available as downloadable Content unless the Designer also chooses to publish that Primary Content as “Post for Download.”

Highlight added

If you check or click "post for download" then it will be digital content offered for download.
If not not.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:00:08 AM
vivendulies wrote:
Terri wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?


"Designer terms 22nd NOV19" wrote:
Such changes may include the addition of Content contributed by the User ("User Content") or Content “Posted for Use” by other Designers and offered in Zazzle’s Design Tool(s) ("Secondary Content"). Composite designs and associated metadata that: (i) are published by Designers (i.e., not contributed by Zazzle) using our “Post for Download” or “Post for Sale” workflows, and (ii) associated with a Product type (e.g., t-shirt, Facebook® banner, tote bag, etc.), are "Primary Content." Primary Content published by a Designer as “Post for Sale” will not be available as downloadable Content unless the Designer also chooses to publish that Primary Content as “Post for Download.”

Highlight added

If you check or click "post for download" then it will be digital content offered for download.
If not not.


But how do we not make that available?
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:00:20 AM
Terri wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?


@Gabiwart It means exactly what it says, if you haven't made it for download then it won't be available to download.
@Terri No setting customization to enabled will not make design available for download. At the moment you have to apply to a separate program to create content to download.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:05:49 AM
GabiwArt wrote:


But how do we not make that available?


By applying to the program as mentioned below under Zazzle create and Royalties.https://forum.zazzle.com/news/changes_to_our_user_agreement_and_policies

Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:10:34 AM
Steampunk Bunny wrote:
Terri wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?


@Gabiwart It means exactly what it says, if you haven't made it for download then it won't be available to download.
@Terri No setting customization to enabled will not make design available for download. At the moment you have to apply to a separate program to create content to download.


So customize - yes allows the download? That may not be true, because customizeabel has nothing to do with download. never had it. They can not do that retroactively.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:21:02 AM
GabiwArt wrote:


So customize - yes allows the download? That may not be true, because customizeabel has nothing to do with download. never had it. They can not do that retroactively.


I'm not sure how you came to that interpretation.

As I said above Setting customize does NOT allow for download. The customization setting has NOTHING to do with being able to download.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:26:42 AM
GabiwArt wrote:

So customize - yes allows the download? That may not be true, because customizeabel has nothing to do with download. never had it. They can not do that retroactively.


No! Why do you draw this conclusion?

ONLY IF YOU CLICK or CHECK "POST FOR DOWNLOAD" it will be available for download.

If you are referring to collaboration.
YES ALLOWING CUSTOMIZE IS EQUAL TO ALLOWING COLLABORATION. YES COLLABORATION IS POSSIBLE ON ALL MP PRODUCTS THAT ALLOW CUSTOMIZATION.

COLLABORATION DOES NOT COME WITH A DOWNLOAD BUTTON.
COLLABORATION COMES WITH A BUY BUTTON.

Why is collaboration still an awful thing for anybody who wants an "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" to go with their MP products under any circumstances collaboration included.

Because you don't need a download button to copy the artistic expression that makes a work protected under copyright law. It's a legal thing. It is not about a technical convenience provided or not.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:45:35 AM
Steampunk Bunny wrote:
Terri wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
buxmontweb wrote:
There's a new post in "Zazzle News" from James regarding the User Agreement changes.


"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?


That's what I'm wondering!
Does setting it to Customization enabled mean available to download? (I think not but I want to make sure.)
Where do we set download abilities?! This is not in MP, right? We have to explicitly put designs in the Create tool?


@Gabiwart It means exactly what it says, if you haven't made it for download then it won't be available to download.
@Terri No setting customization to enabled will not make design available for download. At the moment you have to apply to a separate program to create content to download.


Thank you.
I did apply to make assets for Create because I thought, why not.. But I'm pretty sure that was well over 10 days ago. never heard back from them.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:46:32 AM
vivendulies wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:

So customize - yes allows the download? That may not be true, because customizeabel has nothing to do with download. never had it. They can not do that retroactively.


No! Why do you draw this conclusion?

ONLY IF YOU CLICK or CHECK "POST FOR DOWNLOAD" it will be available for download.


We're not all seeing this.
Do you have a screenshot? (see previous post)
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:50:31 AM
DesignsByMo wrote:
Quote:
From Scott in one of the tech threads: "This may have to wait until after the holidays have passed. Website security and stability is our focus at this time."
[Emphasis added] Interesting... Maybe they finally realized that any issues with our designs also effect Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, etc? I clicked on a few Disney & Sesame Street products & they now only say Personalize, presumably because they're rated G -- & Z doesn't want anyone messing with that during Customize / Collaboration? So, IF they were Customizable before (were they?), they aren't anymore (& probably without them having to delete & recreate everything?)


No, you can still collaborate on Disney products and the invite button is functional. I can still invite a friend and thereby get extensive rights on the Disney princesses. I agree on how to read 6ff and 26.2(ii) in your post here.

I wouldn't exercise those rights since Disney can litigate me in the poor house with their chump change. But others, who better equipped in that department, can easily high-jack their inventory here with added text pairing IMO.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:54:59 AM
Terri wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:

So customize - yes allows the download? That may not be true, because customizeabel has nothing to do with download. never had it. They can not do that retroactively.


No! Why do you draw this conclusion?

ONLY IF YOU CLICK or CHECK "POST FOR DOWNLOAD" it will be available for download.


We're not all seeing this.
Do you have a screenshot? (see previous post)


No. I take zazzle by their word.
See designer terms, which is why I write check or click. I can't tell you at this point if it is a checkbox or a button.

But "Post for download" is bi-unique. There is no other interpretation to this passage in the terms. You as a designer define whether you want to offer something as digital content for download or not.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 2:08:18 AM
Thanks for your answers and explanations. And sorry, for me it is very complicated, like a science in itself.
Maybe I'm too old Sad
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 2:14:07 AM
GabiwArt wrote:
Thanks for your answers and explanations. And sorry, for me it is very complicated, like a science in itself.
Maybe I'm too old Sad


Not to worry. I had help myself to read zazzles changes of the 16th NOV19 in the right light.
Smile
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 6:56:42 AM
Quote:
"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?



Terri That was exactly my thoughts - maybe it is just too early in the morning when I read it but it is now later in the morning and it still makes no sense to me.

SO even if I didn't sign up for the secondary designer program (and are those the designs this is talking about)??.......

what about transfer of designs? If we allow our designs to be transferable can these be downloadable?

I just wish they would give examples with their updates! And I wonder what updates in the next couple of days actually means? It is the weekend already ugh....I hope we don't have to wait weeks for more answers.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:09:55 AM
vivendulies wrote:
[quote=DesignsByMo][quote]

No, you can still collaborate on Disney products and the invite button is functional. I can still invite a friend and thereby get extensive rights on the Disney princesses. I agree on how to read 6ff and 26.2(ii) in your post here.

I wouldn't exercise those rights since Disney can litigate me in the poor house with their chump change. But others, who better equipped in that department, can easily high-jack their inventory here with added text pairing IMO.


My brain is admittedly fried from all this, and I hope this is still the "official" feedback thread on this issue.

My remaining concern with all of this, I believe, is similar to what is mentioned above.

In the Collaboration clause as of 11/22:
- there is no direct mention that (especially) the design elements contained in a MP product that has been used in collaboration are NOT subject to any transfer of copyright via a new creation, public OR private on or OFF Zazzle.

- Given the target market of the collaboration tool, paired with the rights granted in that section, I feel this needs to be spelled out especially clearly.
- A design doesn't have to be publicly posted on Zazzle for someone to exploit it.
- Yes, "to the extent such rights exist" is a bit of a blanket statement, but follow below why I still am not sure this is easy for especially the unfamiliar-with-copyright-terms-general-public may process it:

Regarding the integration of the Create Tool on Z in general, concerned that:
- Collaborate is available in both Create (advertised as ("for any use anywhere free!) and MP Products, and saved designs end up in the same place in a user account.
A user would have to actively realize the difference between where they started. Wouldn't you assume the rights are the same for everything housed under one website/brand name site that functions very similarly?

- Still concerned about what this means for designers who have used art from various sources that prohibit the transfer of an art element that was purchased elsewhere (YES, even legally purchased, edited, and locked layers of artwork). If I've talked about this before, it is honesly concern about a large portion of the MP suddenly being potential accidental infringers in that regard (the transfer to a user who is not just an end buyer, regardless of edits made to the art elements, because I've come across restrictions about that that in several licenses).
Please do not confuse this with an accusation regarding the use of purchased or free art of any kind Smile
Legit concern for the protection of existing and future MP product designer's work in general.



Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:23:45 AM
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:


SO even if I didn't sign up for the secondary designer program (and are those the designs this is talking about)??.......

what about transfer of designs? If we allow our designs to be transferable can these be downloadable?



Nothing can be downloaded unless it has been explicitly accepted into the Create program, for which you must apply. Not transferred designs. Not collaborative designs. Nothing from the MP.

The reason nobody is seeing a Post For Download button to click or check is because there isn't one. Making downloadable content is by application only.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:26:05 AM
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:
Quote:
"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?



Terri That was exactly my thoughts - maybe it is just too early in the morning when I read it but it is now later in the morning and it still makes no sense to me.

SO even if I didn't sign up for the secondary designer program (and are those the designs this is talking about)??.......

what about transfer of designs? If we allow our designs to be transferable can these be downloadable?

I just wish they would give examples with their updates! And I wonder what updates in the next couple of days actually means? It is the weekend already ugh....I hope we don't have to wait weeks for more answers.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there are going to be choices on the publish product page one for download, one for sale and one that I cant recall at the moment. The options are not yet visible for us.

*Edit to add
.. I also wanted to let everyone who is worried about in progress designs from collaborations that may be within anyone's saved folder are removed if you delete the design. Not practical I know but for those that have deleted designs as I have it helps to know. Information given to me by Cian via Zazzle reply to my email.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:59:12 AM
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:
Quote:
"Only Content that has explicitly been made available for download by the Designer will be available to download."

What does this mean?



Terri That was exactly my thoughts - maybe it is just too early in the morning when I read it but it is now later in the morning and it still makes no sense to me.

SO even if I didn't sign up for the secondary designer program (and are those the designs this is talking about)??.......

what about transfer of designs? If we allow our designs to be transferable can these be downloadable?

I just wish they would give examples with their updates! And I wonder what updates in the next couple of days actually means? It is the weekend already ugh....I hope we don't have to wait weeks for more answers.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there are going to be choices on the publish product page one for download, one for sale and one that I can't recall at the moment. The options are not yet visible for us.


Exactly as spelled out in the designer agreement.
It's a 'not yet'.



6.5.1
Let's dissect:
Quote:
The copyright to any new (i.e., non-Public Products) Content that results from a Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators under 17 U.S. Code Title 17

What collaborators add to the collaboration is the new content owned jointly and the collaborators are not allowed to add public products that is unless it is theirs in the first place of coarse.

But we all know anybody can start a collaboration from a public product whether it is from the MP or from the saved design area and the initiator and zazzle enter the content from the public product into the collaboration.

Fact!

Quote:
each hereby agrees that THE RIGHT TO EXPLOIT THE COPYRIGHT TO THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE, TO THE EXTENT ANY SUCH RIGHT EXISTS, AS A "PUBLIC" PRODUCT SHALL BE EXCLUSIVE TO THE INITIATOR OF THE RELEVANT COLLABORATION SESSION (“Collaboration Initiator”).

Well, this read as woohoo "ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" preserved. But it doesn't any asset started out with all rights reserved until it became part of the collaboration. Here the collaborators agree to the combined work is handed over to the initiator. He gets the prize. His/her is the license.

Quote:
EACH COLLABORATOR HEREBY GRANTS TO THE COLLABORATION INITIATOR A NONEXCLUSIVE, PERPETUAL, WORLDWIDE, SUBLICENSABLE AND TRANSFERABLE RIGHT AND LICENSE TO

This they grant and this
Quote:
RIGHT AND LICENSE TO USE, COPY, REPRODUCE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS OF, MODIFY, PUBLICLY DISPLAY, PERFORM AND DISTRIBUTE

is what the initiator can do with this license and this
Quote:
ASSETS AS CONTAINED IN THE COLLABORATIVE CONTENT ON THE SITE

what is the object of the license. Assets as contained that is every element in the collaborated work including the public product.

The assets together are the collaborative content on the site.

Viv, the designer of the public product didn't collaborate if (s)he didn't initiate or join the collaboration. And yet the content is an asset provided by the designer facilitated by zazzle. We all know how this works and that any public product that allows customization can be entered into a collaboration. The designer agrees to this by not taking the product off.

Since it is an asset as contained it is part of the initiators license.

6.1.5.3 Yeah, well it only puts in words what we already know. On its own the initiator doesn't get all those juicy rights. At least one other asset has to be in the work, but it is undefined how big or prominent the other asset has to be.

And because it keeps coming up: NO, zazzle doesn't offer a download button only a buy button in the current version.

I haven't seen a single stockimage license that allows for transfer to this extent. So I don't believe stockimage agencies are happy about zazzle designer who allow collaboration with their images in it.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 8:13:02 AM
vivendulies wrote:
I haven't seen a single stockimage license that allows for transfer to this extent. So I don't believe stockimage agencies are happy about zazzle designer who allow collaboration with their images in it.

+1 - Even if I exclude design elements, my place holder images are a problem across the board.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 8:34:14 AM
DreamEssence_Designs wrote:
*Edit to add.. I also wanted to let everyone who is worried about in progress designs from collaborations that may be within anyone's saved folder are removed if you delete the design. Not practical I know but for those that have deleted designs as I have it helps to know. Information given to me by Cian via Zazzle reply to my email.

I didn't think this was the case and have found Z CS to provide inaccurate information on more than one occasion, so I tested with another designer.

- I opened the Published Product.

- I went into the Design Tool.

- I invited the other Designer.

- That Designer accepted.

- I clicked Done.

- That Designer deleted the Published Product.

- I clicked Refresh.

- I got a "product no longer available" error.

- I went into Saved Designs.

- I clicked THAT Saved Design.

- I was taken directly into the Design Tool.

- That Designer and I were still together as though Collaborating.

- I am able to EDIT or ADD TO CART.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 8:47:37 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:


- I got a "product no longer available" error.

- I went into Saved Designs.

- I clicked THAT Saved Design.

- I was taken directly into the Design Tool.

- That Designer and I were still together as though Collaborating.

- I am able to EDIT or ADD TO CART.


My tests had the same result. It wasn't a fluke but the normal function. Which is why it is important to keep a record of the deleted designs esp. with these terms so you can refute any hanky-panky with the collaboration after deletion aka termination of the license given to zazzle.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 9:06:36 AM
Ohhhhilovethat wrote:


what about transfer of designs? If we allow our designs to be transferable can these be downloadable?


NOT likely. Highly unlikely. You can't transfer to digital content. It is not posted for download, since this option doesn't exist yet.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 9:11:37 AM
Re: Collabs and availability of Collaborated-on Products which have been deleted.

Also, the Chat that I had with the other Designer is still available in my Chat history. There is a link to the Product with a big purple button that says SEE DESIGN.

When I click that SEE DESIGN button, I am taken back into the now-ended Collaboration. Where I can continue to make changes by myself, click DONE, and the Add to Cart button is still there. This is the Product the original Designer has DELETED.

Perhaps someone can "pass along" to CS that they are disseminating incorrect information, if they're saying deleting Published Products also deletes them from all Users' Saved Designs.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 9:38:22 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
Re: Collabs and availability of Collaborated-on Products which have been deleted.

And when I go back to that Saved Design for the third time, the Original Designer is not longer given the Designer Attribution.

Nice.
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2019 10:23:20 AM

Quote:
6.1.5.3. COLLABORATORS DO NOT OBTAIN ANY COPYRIGHTS TO PUBLIC PRODUCTS THAT MAY BE USED IN A COLLABORATION.


but do they gain copyright to the "new" collaborative content that they have created using our designs?

Quote:
6.1.5.1. The Collaboration Initiator is only granted the aforementioned rights in the Collaborative Content, and not to any of the Assets provided by any other Collaborators.


only in the collaborative content could mean the "new" design created from using our marketplace products

I think it would be better to write up different sets of terms for everything you have going on

terms for downloadable content, terms for collaborative content starting from a blank product, and terms for collaborative content starting from marketplace products, and whatever else it going on

why do we need to agree to granting users copyrights to collaborative content if they can't actually get rights to that content?

Quote:
26.2. You retain all ownership rights to your Content submitted to the Site. However, (snip) you grant other Users the license rights detailed elsewhere herein (e.g., for Collaborative Content, per Section 6).




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