James' announcement in News Forum 11/13/19 10:46 pm 15 pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:25:40 PM
While James' explanation is a tiny step in the right direction (at least it seems that they are actually considering some of what we've been trying to tell them!) adding a few words to the agreement doesn't solve the problems. The whole collaboration section has to be rewritten. Initiators should only be allowed to claim copyright if they are starting with a blank product, not the marketplace products. And they have to make it clear that it doesn't apply retroactively, because they can't change the legally binding contract between us and them regarding the designs we've already made. Furthermore, we really need an opt-out! Even if they made it so that the designer has to approve the "collaboration" first, that would be a step in the right direction.
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:29:15 PM
Art Business News © 2014 Print On Demand & Copyright

To avoid an infringement claim, one must only use the original idea and not copy any of the underlying expression of the idea. Pasting and cutting parts of an underlying work can also be an infringement as well. It does not have to be simply copying the whole work; copying portions of a work can also lead to an infringement.

So, a framer (customer) who is working with print-on-demand and acquires a file from an artist or publisher to print needs to be extremely careful in any modification of the work. The print-on-demand framer (customer) should, unless they clear it up with the artist or publisher from whom they receive the file, stick to the file as provided to them.

On the other hand, to be clear, publishers and artists who wish to maintain the integrity of the artworks should include in their print-on-demand agreements with their framers (customers) or other users, restrictions on any modification to the underlying artworks.


This is why Zazzle is changing the contract with artists, they need our permission to change our original artwork to cover their a$$ from artist infringements.

I want a solid OPT OUT.
I will close all my stores
This is my letter to Zazzle that I will not allow my art to be used, abused and sold without my agreement.
I do not give my permission.
My stores will be closed before November 22nd, 2019 and expect NONE of my artwork to be used in any way, shape or form by Zazzle or it's customers in any part of the world after November 22, 2019.

Cherie De Sues November 14, 2019
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:40:46 PM


I have no problem with collaborations on existing items if

  • it is bi-uniquely treated like any single user customization
  • 26.2 is limited to prior consent in each case (save to download / license transfer to collaboration initiator permitted checkbox in the product release form)

    I have no problem with the license section, if zazzle
  • limits their license to offer for download to an expressed consent per case (save to download)

    STOP WITH THE MIXED MESSAGES IN SITE FUNCTIONS AND TERMS.
    STAY TRUE TO JAMES C ASSERTION IN SITE FUNCTIONS AND TERMS.

    "JAMES C in News 11/12/19" wrote:
    Collaborators (Users) DO NOT have any increased rights to your Content beyond what they already had to your Marketplace Products. Their rights are unchanged, they can customize (if you allow that) and purchase.

    Content on your Marketplace Products WILL NOT be available for download. If you want it available for download you can apply to publish via the new publishing methods described below and in the agreements.


    THANK YOU

  • Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:53:50 PM
    Art Business News © 2014 Print On Demand & Copyright:
    Quote:

    To avoid an infringement claim, one must only use the original idea and not copy any of the underlying expression of the idea. Pasting and cutting parts of an underlying work can also be an infringement as well. It does not have to be simply copying the whole work; copying portions of a work can also lead to an infringement.

    So, a framer (customer) who is working with print-on-demand and acquires a file from an artist or publisher to print needs to be extremely careful in any modification of the work. The print-on-demand framer (customer) should, unless they clear it up with the artist or publisher from whom they receive the file, stick to the file as provided to them.

    On the other hand, to be clear, publishers and artists who wish to maintain the integrity of the artworks should include in their print-on-demand agreements with their framers (customers) or other users, restrictions on any modification to the underlying artworks.



    ■ zazzles a$$ is covered by
    Quote:
    1.2. "Content" (i) means any and all artwork, assets, audio clips, data, designs, digital images, drawings, elements, graphics, images, information, metadata, photographs, Product specifications, sketches, stitch files and text, or any combination thereof that you send to Zazzle for placement on the Site or on physical or electronic products made by or for Zazzle ("Products"); and (ii) includes both Primary and Secondary Content (as defined in the Designer License Agreement) for distribution or sale on a physical Product in the Marketplace on the Site "Marketplace Products".

    And
    Quote:
    You also grant us the license and the right to make modifications to your Content as necessary for viewing/sale on a particular Product, as applicable, or for other manufacturing or Site-related purposes.

    DOWNLOAD removed from the quote

    As far as MP products are concerned. As is the customer since he is not purchasing a license / file but a product.

    Which is why zazzle needs to separate the create tool functionality in the terms from the MP content.

    So zazzle can cover their a$$es and that of their customers with transferring CC0 type of licenses.

    As it stand zazzle is dropping the ball by mingling the two business models in the terms and fowling up LICENSE AWARENESS and the ability of their artists to protect their work.
    Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:56:30 PM
    DesignsByMo wrote:
    When Z went to Collections, they made everyone get rid of Categories.


    I still have categories and I am not a top designer.

    I have both collections and categories.

    While I do think many designers use collecions in the place of categories it is not forced by Zazzle.

    just to be clear.

    having said that I absolutely agree with your point that changes should not be forced upon us.

    I have always said the opt outs should automatically come with all new features.



    Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 9:10:25 PM
    Gypsea wrote:
    I'm currently unable to use "private" or "delete" right now. What are you up to Zazzle? Did you freeze these options after I just said I want to opt out?[...]]


    I don't think so. I was afraid of that. Zazzles server probably can't handle the amount of changes with all the hidden and delete that is happening now. With the cache in place the time to act is now if you want to remove your stuff effectively before the deadline. So there is massive activity going on zazzles servers weren't prepared for. My guess at least.
    Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:16:14 PM
    vivendulies wrote:
    Gypsea wrote:
    I'm currenty unable to use "private" or "delete" right now. What are you up to Zazzle? Did you freeze these options after I just said I want to opt out?[...]]


    I don't think so. I was afraid of that. Zazzles server probably can't handle the amount of changes with all the hidden and delete that is happening now. With the cache in place the time to act is now if you want to remove you stuff effectively before the deadline. So there is massive activity going on zazzles servers weren't prepared for. My guess at least.


    I had to have my son do some go-arounds to help me continue my purge. He reminded me to get rid of the art on all my "collections" and "catagories". What a cluster Fuk, ya know? The clock is ticking down..4.3.2.1
    Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:31:43 PM
    Gypsea wrote:

    I had to have my son do some go-arounds to help me continue my purge. He reminded me to get rid of the art on all my "collections" and "catagories". What a cluster Fuk, ya know? The clock is ticking down..4.3.2.1


    YES it is. I just calculated the time I need to delete and document as I go. I'll need four to five days with batches of 48 products per pages. I can do "overtime" as if there is such a thing for freelancers and maybe cut it down to three and a half. So I better start now and not tomorrow or even later ... **sigh** I start by longest unseen and not sold and work my way up to sold and seen recently ... hope is the last thing to dye.

    Crying


    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 1:19:14 AM
    I appreciate it James taking the time to explain the agreement and the changes that have been made. Thank you!

    I agree with WittyBetty about the customization. I only allowed that to cater the customer. Now that allowing to customize means so much more, IMO either all the new functions like shared royalty, collaboration, should not be active on our extisting customizable products, or we should be able to edit them, and for each and every product we should be able to indicate what we do and what we don't allow for that product.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 1:32:58 AM
    PetsDreamlands wrote:


    What I don't understand is the part when people completely misunderstand or ignore or reinterpret what I write.
    @PetsDreamlands You really made me laugh while reading your comment, I so agree. Thank you for all your postsRoses

    Thank you James for the clarification, I understand that more is coming and trust that All is WellLove
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 1:36:13 AM
    YES it is. I just calculated the time I need to delete and document as I go. I'll need four to five days with batches of 48 products per pages. I can do "overtime" as if there is such a thing for freelancers and maybe cut it down to three and a half. So I better start now and not tomorrow or even later ... **sigh** I start by longest unseen and not sold and work my way up to sold and seen recently ... hope is the last thing to dye.

    Crying


    [/quote]
    I'd start at your most sellable items first and work your way down to the rarely seen, never purchased. I hid everything first to get it away from customer view, then I began the purge. I'm actually done, all my products, collections, categories and saved designs are gone, purged. I took my three stores and purged the banners, my information and links. I just hope it's enough.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 2:26:03 AM
    DesignsByMo wrote:
    When Z went to Collections, they made everyone get rid of Categories.


    I don't recall Z doing that. I have categories. I don't have collections.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 5:04:06 AM
    Some comments have been deleted due to complete disregard of the forum rules. Regardless of current moods and feelings, these must remain enforced. No notice will be given after this one for deleted comments on this thread. Thank you. Roses
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 5:43:26 AM
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place? At least wait until you have further clarification before jumping on the panic wagon. I have been with Zazzle since 2007. Yes, they have made changes that I don't agree with, but in the long run, it has not hurt my sales or more importantly, made me want to ditch years of hard work and close up shop. Please, folks, be patient. Zazzle is not ignoring you. It takes time to compile the most important questions and answer them in a way that makes sense to everyone.

    I shall bow out gracefully now...
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 5:55:31 AM
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place?


    Not the point. The terms are what they are. Zazzle has a cache and the termination is in effect when the cache is emptied. So the time has passed. Documenting and deleting of 9,000 items manually takes time + cache time.

    And besides I never thought zazzle is out to get whatever. They have a business model with certain requirements and are implementing that plan.

    Sadly the terms uses mixed messages and - not just my opinion - the terms are what they are causes problems with existing designs and with what the artists want with their art and art licenses.

    The conflict between zazzle plan and how they go about it and what artists want is causing the conflict and consequently and truly sadly (I currently suffer greatly with every batch that I hit delete) the time is upon me to act. NO CHOICE!

    BTW: I take offence by panic wagon. This is cool risk assessment with the aid of professionals in the field (aka copyright attorneys).


    Sorry, James, had to be said.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 6:06:05 AM
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place? At least wait until you have further clarification before jumping on the panic wagon. I have been with Zazzle since 2007. Yes, they have made changes that I don't agree with, but in the long run, it has not hurt my sales or more importantly, made me want to ditch years of hard work and close up shop. Please, folks, be patient. Zazzle is not ignoring you. It takes time to compile the most important questions and answer them in a way that makes sense to everyone.

    I shall bow out gracefully now...


    I would like to think you are correct and in that hope I have still not deleted anything.

    I have hidden the things I plan to delete if I have to.

    I agree it takes time to address these things and that is where the urgency lies.

    It took weeks to get where we are now and even PetsDreamland agrees it still isn't fixed yet.

    Time is the thing we are running out of because of the deadline Zazzle has put in place that as of November 22 we can't use the site without agreeing to the terms.

    We don't have weeks to wait for the next update if they are even considering the suggestions Petsdreamland or anyone else has made.

    So my plea is PLEASE Zazzle give us opt outs QUICKLY! or give us more time by extending the deadline for the new terms until later.

    If we can't get one of those options then they will have forced me to delete years of work and all my best diverse art content many of which are proven sellers.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 6:17:38 AM
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place? At least wait until you have further clarification before jumping on the panic wagon. I have been with Zazzle since 2007. Yes, they have made changes that I don't agree with, but in the long run, it has not hurt my sales or more importantly, made me want to ditch years of hard work and close up shop. Please, folks, be patient. Zazzle is not ignoring you. It takes time to compile the most important questions and answer them in a way that makes sense to everyone.

    I shall bow out gracefully now...

    Wise and precious words. Thank you.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 6:17:58 AM
    vivendulies wrote:
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place?


    BTW: I take offence by panic wagon. This is cool risk assessment with the aid of professionals in the field (aka copyright attorneys).

    I believe she wasn't referring to you at all but to those who are deleting their products and closing their stores.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 6:22:09 AM
    Colorwash wrote:
    vivendulies wrote:
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place?


    BTW: I take offence by panic wagon. This is cool risk assessment with the aid of professionals in the field (aka copyright attorneys).

    I believe she wasn't referring to you at all but to those who are deleting their products and closing their stores.


    And that includes me, because, I hid a soon as I had tested the collaboration for myself and understood how the collaboration tool works and hoped for a solution as long as I could and now I'm deleting anything that I want to defend in any time of the future so I won't running into trouble in any dispute because of zazzle terms. [EDIT]And others probably won't appreciate to be painted hysterical, what is implied by the term panic wagon.[/EDIT]

    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 6:33:46 AM
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place? At least wait until you have further clarification before jumping on the panic wagon. I have been with Zazzle since 2007. Yes, they have made changes that I don't agree with, but in the long run, it has not hurt my sales or more importantly, made me want to ditch years of hard work and close up shop. Please, folks, be patient. Zazzle is not ignoring you. It takes time to compile the most important questions and answer them in a way that makes sense to everyone.

    I shall bow out gracefully now...


    No, I do not think they are out to get me.

    It's the decisions on what and how they choose to run their business model will effect and determine how a portion of my business functions in relation to them.

    Just like what happened at Cafepress, Etsy, Ebay, etc. They got to do and make decisions that works best for their business. You got 2 choices. Adapt or leave.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 7:12:08 AM
    vivendulies wrote:
    Colorwash wrote:
    vivendulies wrote:
    Dale M. Boyce wrote:
    In my humble opinion, I think all of you who are deleting your products and stores are making a HUGE mistake. Do you really think that Zazzle is out to get their designers, the one who made them what they are today in the first place?


    BTW: I take offence by panic wagon. This is cool risk assessment with the aid of professionals in the field (aka copyright attorneys).

    I believe she wasn't referring to you at all but to those who are deleting their products and closing their stores.


    And that includes me, because, I hid a soon as I had tested the collaboration for myself and understood how the collaboration tool works and hoped for a solution as long as I could and now I'm deleting anything that I want to defend in any time of the future so I won't running into trouble in any dispute because of zazzle terms. [EDIT]And others probably won't appreciate to be painted hysterical, what is implied by the term panic wagon.[/EDIT]



    I do agree that "panic wagon" feels derogatory and not appreciated by me either.

    Trying to warn others that "hey, something isn't right here" is a far cry from "panic wagon"






    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 7:28:15 AM
    ThePinkRibbonShoppe wrote:
    Just like what happened at Cafepress, Etsy, Ebay, etc. They got to do and make decisions that works best for their business. You got 2 choices. Adapt or leave.


    I don't think anyone is out to get anybody. However, you have to do what is in your best interest, regardless of what the company does. If the company changes its policies and makes you vulnerable for exploitation or reduces the amount of income you get, you have to protect yourself.

    It is not just about "adapt or leave". Everyone has to make their own decision about how much they will take, and for many people this is a breaking point.

    Businesses change all the time, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But we don't just have to stand here and take it either. You owe companies no loyalty, no matter how long you have been there.

    There is a "sunk cost" fallacy where people feel like they invested so much they don't want to give it up, even if it is not in their best interests.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:08:26 AM
    What a sweet love fest it is that's happening here and there! I would guess that's what Zazzle expected – let the uproar go on, throw a few bones, let the fire burn out, forge ahead like it never even happened. If you're satisfied with the response, I am happy for you and I will not disrespect you over it. I am not, and I ask the same.

    This seems like a good time for a recap.

    - Since October 23, we've been assured at least twice "we will answer your questions." On November 13, we are told "I cannot address all of your questions."

    - Some changes have been made to the User and Designer License agreements. They are steps in the right direction, and leaks remain in usage and rights.

    - The Transaction Fee language was modified, and, to be clear, this changes is NOTHING. Designers get no more or no less on November 22 than they did last week based on this modification. This is "let's pretend to give them something."

    - Elimination of the Designer Attribution sidebar when Published Products go into and come out of Saved Designs; appears this has been fixed for MP Products.

    Questions Remain (and I'm sure these aren't all of them).

    Quote:
    - 6.1.5.2. Collaborative Content based on existing Public Products may not be published on the Site.

    Excuse me, but it can be published elsewhere? Yes, I see 3.1.19, but 6.1.5.2 should support 3.1.19 and not weaken it by stating "on the Site." IMO, anyone interested in publishing a collab isn't going to run back up to another section to see if there is something which defies 6.1.5.2. Since Zazzle doesn't screen pre-publishing and openly admits it (in the agreements), this is a problem.

    Quote:
    Because many consumers may contribute to the Content on a Product, we needed to establish a hierarchy of what rights the Collaborators have to that Content. We did this by calling out the Collaboration Initiator (the person who invites others) as the person who has the most rights in a Collaborative Content session on Zazzle’s Site.

    If the INTENT is CONSUMERS collaborating for Joey's 2nd birthday or Amanda's bridal shower, what's wrong with "everyone owns whatever they contribute and no one gets any additional rights to publish"? All collaborators may purchase and not publish, period. If Designers want to work together on collabs for publishing, they are welcome to make side agreements or Zazzle can provide them a side agreement. Why is this my problem and written into my agreement?

    Quote:
    The same is true if User Content (e.g., one of the Collaborator’s own images) is used in the Collaboration - that User Content may be used in the Collaborative Content, but may not be used in any other context without the contributing Collaborator’s express permission.

    So, for example, let's say a customer requests a Designer's assistance with that Designer's Published Product. The customer provides his/her email, and the Designer invites the customer to a collab. When the Designer says, "Upload Joey's picture, and I'll crop and place it for you," and the customer does so, the Designer can now PUBLISH the resulting collaboration, using the customer's image as a template place holder? Not my circus, but that sounds like a leak.

    Still Outstanding (and which I would consider "MAIN" questions raised).

    - Privacy issues. Caused by the Designer Attribution sidebar.

    - Forced Chat. With fewer features than even the first release of AOL's IM in the 90s, it leaves two choices: (1) provide customer service support or (2) ignore them. This change resulted in the loss of ability to use different email addresses for different stores AND loss of choice as to whether or not customers may contact us BY STORE.

    - Customization Options. No ability to turn off customization on Published Products (the "Customization Penalty"), as requested by many, which results in no opt out for: Chat Requests, Collaboration, and Royalty Sharing, plus the Privacy issue. This leaves two choices: (1) Recreate Products without customization, thus losing MP rank, any Google rank we may have achieved, Design Transfer abilities, plus probable loss of zRank or (2) Assume the Customization Penalty.

    - Royalty Share. To be very clear, I will not be forced to pay another Designer for work they CHOOSE to give away for FREE. I say with confidence that Designers came to Zazzle to EARN money and not to PAY MONEY to other Designers when those Designers piggy back on the original Designer's works – especially stuff those people choose to GIVE AWAY. We also STILL do not know how this ridiculous penalty is calculated. Does anyone at Zazzle do math?

    Why do we have an angry mob?

    If our concerns had no foundation, there would be ZERO changes to the agreements, so, please, don't tell your fellow Designers to not raise them and that everything will be fine. It's not fine.

    If it took me three weeks to write so few words with so little meaning and then not answer 98 percent of the questions asked, I would be out of business.

    The final answer appears to be take it or leave it. For me, there is a good part I will delete, including two of my own websites which display Zazzle Products with my original work. What I will Publish are some public domain designs I am not married to and which happen to sell pretty well. I will republish and customization will be off. I may continue to promote others, but my selection criteria will now exclude Create Designers, in addition to spammers, outright copycats, those who put nothing but Tags or repeat Titles in Descriptions, and bad designs.

    The lack of respect for design partners and the money grab still astounds. So, if it's all the same, no I'm not going to participate in the love fest, and I would appreciate Zazzle's response to outstanding items. And by "response," I mean actual words and the "by not responding we are responding."

    These are my opinions, and I am entitled to them. By definition an "opinion" is neither right nor wrong, and I would appreciate not being beat or name called over expressing mine.

    ETA: My definition of NOT panicking: Waiting 3 weeks for answers before taking action.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:30:28 AM
    RoyK

    I totally agree with you. I will not let marketplace ranking and Google search ranking control me or my decisions.

    My Intellectual Property is more important to me than my marketplace ranking, so I will not continue to allow customizable products in my stores.

    I have been (and will continue) deleting products that have been in my store for 11 years, and have sold hundreds of times, replacing them with non-customizable versions, in order to protect my copyright. To me that is more important. I can start over again. These products have sold before, they will sell again. And if they don't then they don't.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:33:32 AM
    RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
    What a sweet love fest it is that's happening here and there! I would guess that's what Zazzle expected – let the uproar go on, throw a few bones, let the fire burn out, forge ahead like it never even happened. If you're satisfied with the response, I am happy for you and I will not disrespect you over it. I am not, and I ask the same.

    This seems like a good time for a recap.

    - Since October 23, we've been assured at least twice "we will answer your questions." On November 13, we are told "I cannot address all of your questions."

    - Some changes have been made to the User and Designer License agreements. They are steps in the right direction, and leaks remain in usage and rights.

    - The Transaction Fee language was modified, and, to be clear, this changes is NOTHING. Designers get no more or no less on November 22 than they did last week based on this modification. This is "let's pretend to give them something."

    - Elimination of the Designer Attribution sidebar when Published Products go into and come out of Saved Designs; appears this has been fixed for MP Products.

    Questions Remain (and I'm sure these aren't all of them).

    Quote:
    - 6.1.5.2. Collaborative Content based on existing Public Products may not be published on the Site.

    Excuse me, but it can be published elsewhere? Yes, I see 3.1.19, but 6.1.5.2 should support 3.1.19 and not weaken it by stating "on the Site." IMO, anyone interested in publishing a collab isn't going to run back up to another section to see if there is something which defies 6.1.5.2. Since Zazzle doesn't screen pre-publishing and openly admits it (in the agreements), this is a problem.

    Quote:
    Because many consumers may contribute to the Content on a Product, we needed to establish a hierarchy of what rights the Collaborators have to that Content. We did this by calling out the Collaboration Initiator (the person who invites others) as the person who has the most rights in a Collaborative Content session on Zazzle’s Site.

    If the INTENT is CONSUMERS collaborating for Joey's 2nd birthday or Amanda's bridal shower, what's wrong with "everyone owns whatever they contribute and no one gets any additional rights to publish"? All collaborators may purchase and not publish, period. If Designers want to work together on collabs for publishing, they are welcome to make side agreements or Zazzle can provide them a side agreement. Why is this my problem and written into my agreement?

    Quote:
    The same is true if User Content (e.g., one of the Collaborator’s own images) is used in the Collaboration - that User Content may be used in the Collaborative Content, but may not be used in any other context without the contributing Collaborator’s express permission.

    So, for example, let's say a customer requests a Designer's assistance with that Designer's Published Product. The customer provides his/her email, and the Designer invites the customer to a collab. When the Designer says, "Upload Joey's picture, and I'll crop and place it for you," and the customer does so, the Designer can now PUBLISH the resulting collaboration, using the customer's image as a template place holder? Not my circus, but that sounds like a leak.

    Still Outstanding (and which I would consider "MAIN" questions raised).

    - Privacy issues. Caused by the Designer Attribution sidebar.

    - Forced Chat. With fewer features than even the first release of AOL's IM in the 90s, it leaves two choices: (1) provide customer service support or (2) ignore them. This change resulted in the loss of ability to use different email addresses for different stores AND loss of choice as to whether or not customers may contact us BY STORE.

    - Customization Options. No ability to turn off customization on Published Products (the "Customization Penalty"), as requested by many, which results in no opt out for: Chat Requests, Collaboration, and Royalty Sharing, plus the Privacy issue. This leaves two choices: (1) Recreate Products without customization, thus losing MP rank, any Google rank we may have achieved, Design Transfer abilities, plus probable loss of zRank or (2) Assume the Customization Penalty.

    - Royalty Share. To be very clear, I will not be forced to pay another Designer for work they CHOOSE to give away for FREE. I say with confidence that Designers came to Zazzle to EARN money and not to PAY MONEY to other Designers when those Designers piggy back on the original Designer's works – especially stuff those people choose to GIVE AWAY. We also STILL do not know how this ridiculous penalty is calculated. Does anyone at Zazzle do math?

    Why do we have an angry mob?

    If our concerns had no foundation, there would be ZERO changes to the agreements, so, please, don't tell your fellow Designers to not raise them and that everything will be fine. It's not fine.

    If it took me three weeks to write so few words with so little meaning and then not answer 98 percent of the questions asked, I would be out of business.

    The final answer appears to be take it or leave it. For me, there is a good part I will delete, including two of my own websites which display Zazzle Products with my original work. What I will Publish are some public domain designs I am not married to and which happen to sell pretty well. I will republish and customization will be off. I may continue to promote others, but my selection criteria will now exclude Create Designers, in addition to spammers, outright copycats, those who put nothing but Tags or repeat Titles in Descriptions, and bad designs.

    The lack of respect for design partners and the money grab still astounds. So, if it's all the same, no I'm not going to participate in the love fest, and I would appreciate Zazzle's response to outstanding items. And by "response," I mean actual words and the "by not responding we are responding."

    These are my opinions, and I am entitled to them. By definition an "opinion" is neither right nor wrong, and I would appreciate not being beat or name called over expressing mine.

    ETA: My definition of NOT panicking: Waiting 3 weeks for answers before taking action.


    well written, thank you for taking the time and caring!
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 10:42:11 AM
    Many thanks, RoyK_is_a_She, for the comprehensive summary. It is Friday afternoon and many of us will have soul-searching and site-redacting to do over the weekend. Unfortunately, so many of your points have not been addressed by the Powers-That-Be that our choices will not be as informed as they should be. This is a very sad state of affairs.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 11:28:42 AM
    Love RoyK
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 11:46:20 AM
    RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
    I may continue to promote others, but my selection criteria will now exclude Create Designers, in addition to spammers, outright copycats, those who put nothing but Tags or repeat Titles in Descriptions, and bad designs.


    I just have to say that I think your anger toward Create Designers is misplaced. By publishing elements or photos that others can use, a designer is not trying to "piggy back" off of your work or cheat you out of anything - it's simply another way for designers, artists, and photographers to publish their work. If they're OK with people downloading their work for free, that really isn't your problem.

    The way I see it, those designers are providing a service for the rest of the design community where instead of having to purchase elements in advance, or go hunting for public domain/royalty free images (and sort through all of the licensing issues) you, as a designer, can simply use those elements in your designs, and only pay a small percentage of your royalty IF and when the products sell. You'd be free to set your percentage higher on designs where you used such elements or photos in order to compensate for the tiny portion that would go to the other designer whose work you are incorporating into your own.

    I understand your frustration with the royalty structure as it pertains to existing marketplace designs, but please don't take it out on other designers (who are simply trying to earn a living) by lumping them in the same category as "spammers & copycats". I think the chances of a customer adding an element or photo to a completed design are extremely remote, and even if they did, only the customer who modified the design could purchase it.

    I really hate to see the designer community turning on each other in this way. Just my opinion.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 11:53:38 AM
    RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
    What a sweet love fest it is that's happening here and there! I would guess that's what Zazzle expected – let the uproar go on, throw a few bones, let the fire burn out, forge ahead like it never even happened. If you're satisfied with the response, I am happy for you and I will not disrespect you over it. I am not, and I ask the same.

    Perhaps without realizing it, your statement reads as highly sarcastic toward those who don't appear to agree with you. Many of them actually have a wait-and-see attitude and don't want to or can't get involved in acrimony. However, I've seen no evidence of a prominent "sweet love fest." The members here aren't the enemy.
    Posted: Friday, November 15, 2019 12:08:51 PM
    @Roy_K, I agree that it's piggybacking off of primary content designers.


    Primary, secondary, initiators...it's convoluted. Zazzle should purchase and manage their image library if they're going to have a library.

    I'm going to work with it, though, and see how it goes. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
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