Copyright vulnerability in the new terms 11 pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 9:47:20 AM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
The problem isn't that Zazzle will allow downloads of our art. I believe they won't, initially at least. the problem is that the new TOS gives them the rights to do it. And that becomes a problem when one a. either has a 3rd party license or b. wants to defend one's own copyright to one's own artwork.


yes, exactly, they said that our work will never be available for download so I think they will change it because why would it need to be in there then?

but there is also this

Quote:
The copyright to any Content that results from a Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators


that gives away copyright to our Content if it is used in a Collaboration at the "in-progress" stage, if you can download an "in-progress" design then the Content has been "modified for download"

(sorry zazzle, love you) I just don't want to give away my copyright and I don't want to close my shop

I'm leaving everything up even past nov 22 but if the new agreement isn't changed then I will start closing up sometime soon after that

I'll be focusing on my etsy and redbubble shops and maybe open another new one somewhere else, who knows...




Once we are gone, do they have a license to use the designs which are cached/saved somewhere? I once bought an image for my website. I wanted to download it again...but it was gone..pulled out. The support person was very easily able to get it back for me.

SUPER IMPORTANT:
*** If zazzle is going to basically force us out...I would like to see an addition to their terms TOS that once we and our products are gone, they no longer have a right to our designs. ***

I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?

Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 9:57:52 AM
AnnaRosaEnergyArtist wrote:

Once we are gone, do they have a license to use the designs which are cached/saved somewhere? I once bought an image for my website. I wanted to download it again...but it was gone..pulled out. The support person was very easily able to get it back for me.

SUPER IMPORTANT:
*** If zazzle is going to basically force us out...I would like to see an addition to their terms TOS that once we and our products are gone, they no longer have a right to our designs. ***

I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?



"Designer Terms 11/22/19" wrote:
You retain all copyright and other intellectual property rights in your Content. You may delete or hide your Primary Content and certain types of Secondary Content from the Site at any time, but due to caching and other technical issues, it may take a number of days for it to be completely removed from the Site. Upon the removal of Content, the licenses above will terminate, except that Zazzle may continue to use or access your Content (i) to fulfill any orders placed prior to termination, (ii) in marketing and promotional materials if such materials were created prior to removal of the Content, and (iii) to defend against or respond to infringement claims.


Zazzle can no longer sell when you withdraw your work.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 10:06:04 AM
Quote:
I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?


the agreement says that if we remove our designs that their license to use them is terminated unless someone ordered something before you removed the design then they can still fulfill that order

but every once in awhile I do see someone ordering a product that I have deleted and the order definitely did not happen before the product was deleted so I would love to know how that works...





Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 10:14:49 AM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?


the agreement says that if we remove our designs that their license to use them is terminated unless someone ordered something before you removed the design then they can still fulfill that order

but every once in awhile I do see someone ordering a product that I have deleted and the order definitely did not happen before the product was deleted so I would love to know how that works...







Exactly
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 10:22:28 AM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?


the agreement says that if we remove our designs that their license to use them is terminated unless someone ordered something before you removed the design then they can still fulfill that order

but every once in awhile I do see someone ordering a product that I have deleted and the order definitely did not happen before the product was deleted so I would love to know how that works...


Most likely it was a customer re-ordering something previously purchased. Once they make a purchase, it goes into their account and they can order it over and again even if you have deleted it. And this is only allowed while you have an account. No one else can order it, though.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:05:15 AM
Gina ©gleem wrote:
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?


the agreement says that if we remove our designs that their license to use them is terminated unless someone ordered something before you removed the design then they can still fulfill that order

but every once in awhile I do see someone ordering a product that I have deleted and the order definitely did not happen before the product was deleted so I would love to know how that works...


Most likely it was a customer re-ordering something previously purchased. Once they make a purchase, it goes into their account and they can order it over and again even if you have deleted it. And this is only allowed while you have an account. No one else can order it, though.


It is still a breach of contract.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:20:56 AM
Quote:
It is still a breach of contract.


yes, but I think it's actually fine now that I thought about it

because it's a breach of contract (we deleted the design) so the giving away of the copyright wouldn't apply either and we still get the money form the sale - you can't force someone to stick to a contract that you breached probably

...unless it still happens even after the entire account is deleted, but how would anyone know, I guess you would have to test it by having someone order something, then delete the account and see if it can still be ordered
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:23:35 AM
sugarhai wrote:
Quote:
I worked very hard to get a repeat business going with my business cards. When the customer comes back to reorder and my card is no longer listed...it is still saved in their designs...right?


the agreement says that if we remove our designs that their license to use them is terminated unless someone ordered something before you removed the design then they can still fulfill that order

but every once in awhile I do see someone ordering a product that I have deleted and the order definitely did not happen before the product was deleted so I would love to know how that works...







This is very troubling... I also understand the terms to mean that they can only fulfill orders that were already placed before the design was deleted. Nowhere does it even hint that they should be able to keep using it after that.

edit: except if it had already been used to make a promo image or they need to defend their rights to that promo image in court. but not for continuing to fulfill future orders.

It should be completely wiped from the servers.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:37:37 AM
I've had orders of products/designs that I eventually deleted and the former customer was able to repurchase after that because the product/design sat in their account. This is for repurchasing purposes and the customer has no way of selling the product/design. I don't see it being any different than making custom orders and then deleting the product after the customer purchased. That customer can still repurchase that product. It has always been this way here.

Every time a customer purchases a product, it goes into their account, until/unless they delete it. They can repurchase it 1000 times over or never again. It matters not if it still is in our account.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:38:40 AM
sugarhai wrote:
[quote]
because it's a breach of contract (we deleted the design) so the giving away of the copyright wouldn't apply either and we still get the money form the sale - you can't force someone to stick to a contract that you breached probably

...unless it still happens even after the entire account is deleted, but how would anyone know, I guess you would have to test it by having someone order something, then delete the account and see if it can still be ordered


There's been some ex zazzlers who deleted their account, but occasionally get an email saying they sold something, and they don't get the money for it.....
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 11:45:21 AM
Gina ©gleem wrote:
I've had orders of products/designs that I eventually deleted and the former customer was able to repurchase after that because the product/design sat in their account. This is for repurchasing purposes and the customer has no way of selling the product/design. I don't see it being any different than making custom orders and then deleting the product after the customer purchased. That customer can still repurchase that product. It has always been this way here.

Every time a customer purchases a product, it goes into their account, until/unless they delete it. They can repurchase it 1000 times over or never again. It matters not if it still is in our account.


I am not trying to argue with you about this but the terms say:

"Upon the removal of Content, the licenses above will terminate, except that Zazzle may continue to use or access your Content (i) to fulfill any orders placed prior to termination, (ii) in marketing and promotional materials if such materials were created prior to removal of the Content, and (iii) to defend against or respond to infringement claims

even if a buyer has the design saved in their saved folder any order after the design has been deleted is a breach of this contract.
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 8:36:38 PM
NikolaTigerDesigns wrote:
sugarhai wrote:
[quote]
because it's a breach of contract (we deleted the design) so the giving away of the copyright wouldn't apply either and we still get the money form the sale - you can't force someone to stick to a contract that you breached probably

...unless it still happens even after the entire account is deleted, but how would anyone know, I guess you would have to test it by having someone order something, then delete the account and see if it can still be ordered


There's been some ex zazzlers who deleted their account, but occasionally get an email saying they sold something, and they don't get the money for it.....


These people need to pursue that and put a stop to it. You can bet that Z does not put up with people using their assets without the rights, so why should they get away with the same?
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 9:59:21 PM
I do NOT like what Zazzle wants to do! My copyrights are my copyrights! They are not to be given away!
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2019 10:56:51 PM
GabiwArt wrote:
I do NOT like what Zazzle wants to do! My copyrights are my copyrights! They are not to be given away!


Zazzle isn't exactly giving it away.

It is reckless to advertise digital content with a CC0 like wording when on the same time right next to it is content that isn't.

Because zazzle asks the right to download for all content, doesn't mean that zazzle will offer all content for download. You have to however trust, that zazzle won't.

The problem with the current situation is, that zazzle needn't transfer our licenses with a CC0-kind of wording like on the intro page of the create tool as currently to endanger our ability to defend our copyright. It is bad enough as it is right now, with the create tool and its advertising and the lack of any license agreement accompanying the act of the download.

It can be exploited as it is now. The download part in the new license agreement just makes it even worse.


I want the transfer confined to manufacturers and zazzles self-advertising and download separated and applied to the create tool designers digital content only.

And while we are at it, how about building license awareness.

**SIGH**


Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 5:20:27 AM
vivendulies wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
I do NOT like what Zazzle wants to do! My copyrights are my copyrights! They are not to be given away!


Zazzle isn't exactly giving it away.

It is reckless to advertise digital content with a CC0 like wording when on the same time right next to it is content that isn't.

Because zazzle asks the right to download for all content, doesn't mean that zazzle will offer all content for download. You have to however trust, that zazzle won't.

The problem with the current situation is, that zazzle needn't transfer our licenses with a CC0-kind of wording like on the intro page of the create tool as currently to endanger our ability to defend our copyright. It is bad enough as it is right now, with the create tool and its advertising and the lack of any license agreement accompanying the act of the download.

It can be exploited as it is now. The download part in the new license agreement just makes it even worse.


I want the transfer confined to manufacturers and zazzles self-advertising and download separated and applied to the create tool designers digital content only.

And while we are at it, how about building license awareness.

**SIGH**




Yes surely Zazzle shouldn’t be surprised that we read the fine print before just blindly agreeing to things? Or maybe they were hoping we would just click “I agree” without reading it first. I know that is very common.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 6:56:51 AM
Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of designers who will stay with it in spite of any potential problems. That's why Zazzle isn't too worried about the few of us who actually read and disagree with the new terms. It won't be Zazzle's problem if someone is in violation of 3rd party artwork licensing nor will Zazzle be very concerned if someone can no longer defend their original artwork copyright because of these terms. These things are not a problem for Zazzle but might be a big problem for an individual designer. There will be many who do take a chance though.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 7:06:45 AM
Anderson_Designs wrote:
Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of designers who will stay with it in spite of any potential problems. That's why Zazzle isn't too worried about the few of us who actually read and disagree with the new terms. It won't be Zazzle's problem if someone is in violation of 3rd party artwork licensing nor will Zazzle be very concerned if someone can no longer defend their original artwork copyright because of these terms. These things are not a problem for Zazzle but might be a big problem for an individual designer. There will be many who do take a chance though.


It is not just, that some will take the chance with the new terms. We feel active resistance from some. There is clearly a lack of support by some fellow designer, who completely lack compassion for their fellow designer, who want and need a decent level of control.

Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 7:08:23 AM
vivendulies wrote:
GabiwArt wrote:
I do NOT like what Zazzle wants to do! My copyrights are my copyrights! They are not to be given away!


Zazzle isn't exactly giving it away.

It is reckless to advertise digital content with a CC0 like wording when on the same time right next to it is content that isn't.

Because zazzle asks the right to download for all content, doesn't mean that zazzle will offer all content for download. You have to however trust, that zazzle won't.

The problem with the current situation is, that zazzle needn't transfer our licenses with a CC0-kind of wording like on the intro page of the create tool as currently to endanger our ability to defend our copyright. It is bad enough as it is right now, with the create tool and its advertising and the lack of any license agreement accompanying the act of the download.

It can be exploited as it is now. The download part in the new license agreement just makes it even worse.


I want the transfer confined to manufacturers and zazzles self-advertising and download separated and applied to the create tool designers digital content only.

And while we are at it, how about building license awareness.

**SIGH**




No CC0 with my works! Why does Zazzle not let designers choose with settings like customize or design transfer?
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 7:19:48 AM
GabiwArt wrote:

No CC0 with my works! Why does Zazzle not let designers choose with settings like customize or design transfer?

They need the tranferrable license to keep this site up and running. They just don't need it to the current unlimited extend.

There is an option on the page where you can turn off customization. That is and will be an option you can choose. See post page under Age group.

While zazzle is asking the download for any and all content submitted, currently there is a public letter of intent here in this forum by James C, that not any and all content will be submitted for download.

Again zazzle is asking for more than they need but since the create tool with the download and the accompanying ad (CC0 like text on the intro page of the create tool when you are not logged in) has changed their habits in regards of downloads and licenses that goes with the content on this site, this also means that the practical application of transferable in the license has changed.

Hence the need for license awareness.

JUST LIKE IN FLICKR WE NEED A LICENSE LABEL. So that we can bi-uniquely communicate, that not all content falls under the CC0 like license of the create tool.


Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 7:40:44 AM
LICENSE AWARENESS

Currently zazzle offers stamps for crafters. Crafter rubber stamps usually come with a so called Angels License. This means you can sell physical objects created with the stamp but you can not sell the digital version.

Zazzle doesn't offer this type of crafters. Crafters with a license awareness won't buy a zazzle rubber stamp for exactly that reason.

This just one example.

Another example:

A business card usually is accompanied with a corporate design. Zazzle business cards don't offer the required license. Which why those cards have just a limited use and only freelancer and micro business have actually use for them. Usually a good portion of those buyers lack license awareness which is why they happily buy business cards from zazzle. The create tool addresses the problem but puts zazzle partly out of business, too.

The create tool is undervaluing the work, craftsmanship and talent that goes into creating templates. Not really a solution for the profession of designer as a whole.

This is long term damage and the design profession is feeling it for quite some time. This type of undercutting has caused a lot of business to go belly up. It is by far not just a problem for the designer guild.

last but not least ...
and common case for most products...
Other products don't need any kind of extended license can be published with all rights reserved. (c)

License awareness



Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 7:53:21 AM
One more thing:

Zazzle could share in actual small business CI design with a download if we had the functionality to attach license agreement to the purchase. I'd happily design the graphical part for responsive webdesign in Affinity or Photoshop and offer it together with business cards and stationary as a set, if I get paid for it and I happily have zazzle earn with me for providing the infrastructure and customer support.

The download is only such a huge problem because it is attached to free CC0 content and haphazardly and recklessly endangers our ability to defend our copyrights.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 8:23:25 AM
@zazzle

BECAUSE OF REASONS specifically because of this:


User Agreement 35.7 clearly states
"User Agreement Nov 22nd 2019" wrote:
35.7. The Policies constitute the entire agreement between you and Zazzle, and supersedes all other communications, written or oral, with regard to the subject matter herein, the Site and services provided by Zazzle.



LICENSE AWARENESS LABELS NEED TO BE SPELLED OUT IN THE TERMS AND BE A PART OF THE SITE TO BE EFFECTIVE.

Thank you for listening.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 8:57:55 AM
Quote:
Zazzle isn't exactly giving it away.


I don't think they are exactly giving it away either but the agreement does say that the are...or it is possible, it needs to be rewritten and made clear

Quote:
6.1.5. The copyright to any Content that results from a Collaboration, whether a “final” product or in-progress (collectively, “Collaborative Content”), may be jointly owned by all Collaborators


collaboration is

Quote:
Zazzle offers a collaboration function that can be used between Users on certain parts of the site


what parts of the site? what designs can you collab on? who is the collaboration initiator? does the design owner have to be in on the collab or can any two people do it?

it says between "Users" so that means any vistor to the site can collab with any other user to create a "new" design and then they jointly own the new product - okay but what designs can they use in their collab? any? those who opt in?


Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 9:40:31 AM
vivendulies wrote:
Thank you for listening.

Yes, maybe listening they are, but I would thank @Zazzle to RESPOND.

Tomorrow will be two weeks+ for all these topics. We are still looking for -

- Zazzle pays Royalties; not Designers paying Designers.

- Licensing terms which separate Create and MP.

- Privacy for Designer Attribution (longer than two weeks).

- Chat functionality that has at least the same functionality as the 80s and AOL (away messages; longer than two weeks). Privacy here too.

Instead of responding, it looks a lot like Padie and Scott have have been abandoned by their zPeers.

We need to make decisions regarding our futures here and holiday Royalty Rates, if staying. Doesn't seem like it's too much to ask to understand what we're basing those decisions on.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 9:40:51 AM
@sugarhai ▲

Absolte. These questions need to be defined more and clarified.
I'm absolutely with you in that.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 9:48:41 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
Thank you for listening.

Yes, maybe listening they are, but I would thank @Zazzle to RESPOND.


me too. But for the license label and creating license awareness and a binding contract even with a casual buyer who is hardly aware of what rights he buys with the item. I was diplomatic with that sentence.

I do need action on zazzles side to solve this mess or it will have severe consequences for me and likely others.


RoyK_is_a_She wrote:



Tomorrow will be two weeks+ for all these topics. We are still looking for -

- Zazzle pays Royalties; not Designers paying Designers.

- Licensing terms which separate Create and MP.

- Privacy for Designer Attribution (longer than two weeks).

- Chat functionality that has at least the same functionality as the 80s and AOL (away messages; longer than two weeks). Privacy here too.

Instead of responding, it looks a lot like Padie and Scott have have been abandoned by their zPeers.

We need to make decisions regarding our futures here and holiday Royalty Rates, if staying. Doesn't seem like it's too much to ask to understand what we're basing those decisions on.


Yes, on all these points.
But don't you agree, that having license sticker for license awareness with the necessary variety in the hands of the designer will solve the current and esp. the future even worse vulnerability nicely.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 10:10:21 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
Thank you for listening.

Yes, maybe listening they are, but I would thank @Zazzle to RESPOND.

Tomorrow will be two weeks+ for all these topics. We are still looking for -

- Zazzle pays Royalties; not Designers paying Designers.

- Licensing terms which separate Create and MP.

- Privacy for Designer Attribution (longer than two weeks).

- Chat functionality that has at least the same functionality as the 80s and AOL (away messages; longer than two weeks). Privacy here too.

Instead of responding, it looks a lot like Padie and Scott have have been abandoned by their zPeers.

We need to make decisions regarding our futures here and holiday Royalty Rates, if staying. Doesn't seem like it's too much to ask to understand what we're basing those decisions on.


adding an important point that was missed...

we need opt outs for all features that allow us to choose what we do or do not want to participate in.

ie: chat
allowing secondary content additions
allowing our content to be used in collaborations

just for starters.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 10:19:03 AM
RoyK_is_a_She wrote:
vivendulies wrote:
Thank you for listening.

Yes, maybe listening they are, but I would thank @Zazzle to RESPOND.

Tomorrow will be two weeks+ for all these topics. We are still looking for -

- Zazzle pays Royalties; not Designers paying Designers.

- Licensing terms which separate Create and MP.

- Privacy for Designer Attribution (longer than two weeks).

- Chat functionality that has at least the same functionality as the 80s and AOL (away messages; longer than two weeks). Privacy here too.

Instead of responding, it looks a lot like Padie and Scott have have been abandoned by their zPeers.

We need to make decisions regarding our futures here and holiday Royalty Rates, if staying. Doesn't seem like it's too much to ask to understand what we're basing those decisions on.

+1; I've been hanging about, waiting to see what the response is going to be to all of this.

The longer we go without any answers or a hint that they're at least considering changes to the new terms and policies...

...the more convinced I become that Zazzle has weighed some designers complaining/leaving against others staying (and not really realizing what's happening to their rights)...

...and that they've concluded there are 'acceptable losses'.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but convince me to come back. Convince others to stay. So far, that doesn't seem a likely outcome.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 10:25:09 AM
vivendulies wrote:
But don't you agree, that having license sticker for license awareness with the necessary variety in the hands of the designer will solve the current and esp. the future even worse vulnerability nicely.

Zazzle should want to do that, to provide cover for themselves. If the designer's chosen licensing level is displayed, then an infringer has no excuse, and Zazzle could likewise say they communicated what uses were acceptable for the designer-supplied content.

Power in the hands of the designer to decide. Instead, we've got terms that appear to weaken our copyrights.

Can't help but feel a Zazzle attuned to their designers would have been able to avoid creating this mess in the first place.
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 10:52:43 AM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:


Can't help but feel a Zazzle attuned to their designers would have been able to avoid creating this mess in the first place.


Exactly
Users browsing this topic
Guest, Shelli Fitzpatrick


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
Print this topic
RSS Feed
Normal
Threaded