Can the automatic hidden products stop 2 pages: [1] 2
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 12:59:21 PM
I'd like to see the automatic making products hidden to stop. Sometimes old designs do sell. I even came across one that was hidden that had been sold.

I want my links to work that I took the time to make and set up. I want my customers to go to the product that they are clicking on.

Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 5:12:35 PM
I'm with you, I check for hidden products every day or two,
delete the ones that really are obsolete and make the rest visible
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 5:50:22 PM
I'm in the midst of doing a major overhaul of my main shop and it is depressing to see just how many of my designs have been hidden. I've deleted over half of what I had at my highest count and I don't know if I should add anything new because that just makes it harder to maintain.
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 7:45:30 PM
Let me chime in here... I just finished going through 5 pages, that is over 100 products that had been hidden making most of them public again ( I deleted a few.

Not too long ago I posted about a product that sold that I had created the very first day I came to Zazzle, over 3 years ago. I had to un-hide that product twice and I nearly deleted it but lo and behold, someone bought it a few weeks ago.

I really wish we didn't have to worry about broken links and empty collections because of hidden products. I already spent a lot of time creating and promoting them and I don't always have time to spend making sure that they are not hidden.

Who knows how many sales we miss because of this. I say we meaning you Zazzle and me...


Eta: I keep my product count relatively low here... less than 5000 in one store and just over 700 in the other. So over 100 products hidden is a large percentage for me. Some of my hidden products have lots of views just not recently.
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:18:38 PM
I would also like to not have Zazzle hide our products if they haven't been viewed in a while. How long do they have to go without getting viewed before they get hidden? Is it 18 months? I've only been with Z for a year now, so I won't have to be concerned about it just yet, but I hate the thought of having to go in and unhide hundreds of products.
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:30:49 PM
Agreed. I don't like having products hidden.
You just never know what people will buy and WHEN.
Hidden designs won't get sold. Why hide them, Z?
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 9:02:09 PM
I made over 300 products public earlier today. When I went back a few minutes ago, there were close to 30 more hidden products already. I've hidden around 5 myself, just because they are my old business cards. But the rest, I want to remain public.

If I'm focusing on creating art and then adding designs to products, I shouldn't have to also worry about making old designs public.

We need a better system.
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2019 11:17:06 PM
Ever since I promoted accidentally hidden products, I avoid having any of my stuff hidden by visiting anything that is red on a regular basis.

It is annoying as hell!!!

Zazzle has far too many stuff in the long tail which they don't make available than that anything of this not seen has anything to do with bad marketing. Unless you go about you marketing in a very aggressive fashion, you are bound to have items unseen for more than a year.

Even with a large fan base, this is a natural mathematical occurrence. All this hiding is doing, is keeping me busy calling up my own stuff. So!!! YES! I'm with you in that.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 3:24:18 AM
Seriously, this hiding system is out of control! No matter how often I check there are more products hidden every time. And it's even re-hiding things that I just made public! It's impossible to have all my products accessible at one time because before one set of products is reindexed to show up in my store another set has been hidden.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 4:42:37 AM
SilverWebForge wrote:
Seriously, this hiding system is out of control! No matter how often I check there are more products hidden every time. And it's even re-hiding things that I just made public! It's impossible to have all my products accessible at one time because before one set of products is reindexed to show up in my store another set has been hidden.


Add &sd=asc in your last viewed product view to the address and view anything that is red and if you see room for improvement just do that and give them some promo love and do that in regular intervals that keeps the red manageable. It helps.

Hiding the items is still not necessary, since old hardly viewed item sell on a regular basis for me. Hiding them would only serve to lesser sales and that doesn't make sense to me.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 5:08:41 AM
Cheryl Paton wrote:
I'd like to see the automatic making products hidden to stop. Sometimes old designs do sell. I even came across one that was hidden that had been sold.


Once the product is sold it is always in the MP.

Zazzle isn't hiding products to be mean or to make the MP pretty. They implemented the change because they wanted to keep their ranking with Google better. I can't remember the fine details but Z explain it all before.

It's not hard to take a few minutes a day and revisit those products that are hidden or about to be hidden. Chip away at them... delete the ones where the templates don't work or they are outdated. There are plenty of things to do to keep you stores fresh.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 5:59:47 AM
Weekly I view my products by "last viewed" go to the last pages, and when they have the red writing under them saying they haven't been viewed in 13 months, I view them and that keeps them from being hidden. Still takes time & is annoying but there is less of a chance of accidentally deleting it because all I am doing is viewing the product.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 7:12:53 AM
Karen Coffelt wrote:
How long do they have to go without getting viewed before they get hidden?

15 months. The products will show a warning at 13 months. Items that have sold are not affected by the marketplace optimization.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 7:23:58 AM
I do a weekly check. Sometimes I will do two in a week. Only takes a few moments of my time to perform that bit of maintenance. I don't stress because I stay on top of it.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 7:49:31 AM
The reason they were hidden is because they hadn’t had any views. When you unhide them you also need to view them.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 7:57:13 AM
I review things when they hit 13 months and show the red warning. Sometimes I will try to rehabilitate a product, but most I remove before they become hidden, because I'm not convinced that waiting is likely to make any difference. If something hasn't found a buyer in 13 months, it probably isn't going to, and I can't see letting my store fill up with non-performers that serve no purpose but to drag it down.

That said, I dislike MPO immensely. I don't promote anymore (due to the Facebook/Spartacus issue, MPO, lack of referrals, and the realization that it's not where my skills lie.) So the only way I can keep my ZRank high enough to keep everything else from being sent to oblivion is to play Z's MPO game.

I've considered the arguments concerning the effect on affiliates and that one never knows if/when something might sell, even years later. I assume by now affiliates have either bailed on Zazzle or found a way to cope with the effects of MPO breaking links, and the effect of ZRank on designer behavior.

While I can't know if something might finally sell for the first time years from now, in the current situation it doesn't behoove me to keep them around 'just in case'. It's sell or die.

Right now, I have around 90 products that are 'endangered' (10 months with no views, and seem very unlikely to survive.) That's more than 10% of my offerings. I fully expect that I'm going to reach a point where all I have left is things that have already sold, unless I keep churning out new products. It's completely discouraging, but I've concluded that I just have to live with it, absent Z changing their policies.

Of course, everyone has to decide for themselves what works best for them. For me, that's setting aside long term plans and abandoning plans for building something sustainable. I'm instead focusing on the day to day, because Z could upend things tomorrow.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 7:59:59 AM
It's not a passive income. Granted it does clean up some of the clutter on the mp. Would like them to extend protection from hidden, for products that has a winning design on it, not just the sold product bubiut all product with the sold design. Dont trust the view counter, had a sell for a shot glass recorded before a view. Heard something about a 3 day but not even sure about that.

Add a design rehab a design. Still have less than a 100 designs, not counting patterns and reskins. My product count is going up, but slowwer not that I'm deleting dud designs and products that dont get many view. The first page for the store and category is to valuable for dud.

Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 9:49:37 AM
If I hadn't added so many things back when folks used to advise putting all designs on every product, and if I had not used quick create which put the same description and key words on all items with a design, and if I had found the time to do weekly maintenance on my shops and collections last year, then I probably wouldn't be having the issues that I'm having now trying to clean up my shops. Hopefully once I get this done then it will be easier to maintain everything. Some days I wonder if it is worth the effort though. It really is a pain to have to make new banners for collections when some of the items pictured in the banner are no longer available for whatever reason. I'm also just deleting many collections. I feel as if my shop is one big mess.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 10:24:54 AM
Just to help some of you with why this is a thing in the first place.

https://forum.zazzle.com/news/more_on_marketplace_optimization

Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 10:49:40 AM
It is annoying to always have hidden items that I did not hide (no - views).

However, I have found that viewing these items sometimes gets my creative juices flowing again. Such as - "oh, I forgot about that design, it would look great on ____________"

Depending on timing, I might nudge the product with edits, other times, I just "re-set" to public.

I think I am keeping up with the updates quite handily now.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 11:52:33 AM
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years

Wow - based on those criteria, every product in my store is a success. Such whopping success has earned me a ZRank of...

5...

...because there's more to having a successful store than having successful public products. Things like repeat sales, sales-to-product ratio, freshness of one's offerings, conforming to Z's recommended royalty rates (yeah, not going to do that), promoting (not going to do that either), probably oodles of things I've missed/forgotten at the moment.

The surprise for me isn't so much that I'm only at a 5; it's that I'm doing even so well as that.

Is actually succeeding here worth everything that goes into it? I think "your mileage may vary" applies. Sometimes there's more value in failing than succeeding (if you believe that you learn more from your failures than your successes. On that score, I'm a rich man.)

I have my reasons for not trying so hard to succeed here. (Keeping my hair, and my sanity, to name just two.) But for those who really want it, I wish you luck and hope you get it.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 1:26:59 PM
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years

Wow - based on those criteria, every product in my store is a success. Such whopping success has earned me a ZRank of...

5...

...because there's more to having a successful store than having successful public products. Things like repeat sales, sales-to-product ratio, freshness of one's offerings, conforming to Z's recommended royalty rates (yeah, not going to do that), promoting (not going to do that either), probably oodles of things I've missed/forgotten at the moment.

The surprise for me isn't so much that I'm only at a 5; it's that I'm doing even so well as that.

Is actually succeeding here worth everything that goes into it? I think "your mileage may vary" applies. Sometimes there's more value in failing than succeeding (if you believe that you learn more from your failures than your successes. On that score, I'm a rich man.)

I have my reasons for not trying so hard to succeed here. (Keeping my hair, and my sanity, to name just two.) But for those who really want it, I wish you luck and hope you get it.


Well, I'm only at 4 and as long as I don't drop to 3 and my stuff is excluded from the marketplace I really don't care.

It is simple math, why I don't adhere to zazzles view on the subject.

How can something be viewed in the first place when most is invisible in the long tail and won't see the light of day even, when there are people out there who would just for the sake of escaping the popular choices enter page 25 in the address field of the browser.

Yes, you can tweak your tags but the more you tweak it the unlikelier you find real people who actually search those terms and your now product listed in the first 17 pages and even on the prime position of first three pages still won't have any views, since most people look up obvious search terms with an overcrowded search result with those extreme long invisible long tails. Catch22!

The hell of the invisible long tail wherever you look.
So you do your marketing outside, mostly competing with googles invisible long tail or sites which are designed for entertainment and are primarily a source for the competition to get inspirations like pinterest. Which is why I call any other sales than those who made the regular and get suggested frequently, flukes rather than the result of actual proper marketing efforts.

Saved by numbers - doomed due to numbers
The only viable option, if you don't have the required marketing budget and staff, to make a dent is to have a competing number of products. Which is why you have to have an unmanageable number of products for a one person freelance designer outfit. Having to spend your time calling up your own products is not helping the freelance designer to do useful things to earn a living.

Little poor one person freelance outfits
I try to do my best in producing great designs and to tag and describe them as comprehensive and SEO-friendly as possible considering that English is my second language given the time I have to work on zazzle and be content that my hourly rate is less than a shelf filler in the supermarket. I most certainly won't be as content with this fact if I'm forced to do stupid things like weekly calling my own products so my outside links do not result in 404-SORRIES and when I can make use of unforeseeable opportunities, I don't want to worry whether the item, I'm promoting, goes off-line while my link is still hot. Not to mention that cold links can go hot again after a period of utter sad neglect (changes in search algorithm shuffle links all the time) and it is simply nice, when those links are still alive at that time.

Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 1:33:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years


I'm curious as to the relevance of the product type itself being one added in the last 2 years, and how would one know when the product type was added to Zazzle. Obviously I've seen things added in the year I've been here) Aren't T-shirts and postcards and the like mainstays that have been here since the early days? Would we be discouraged to create on those product types for any reason?
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 1:35:12 PM
vivendulies wrote:
Fuzzy Felosarix wrote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years

Wow - based on those criteria, every product in my store is a success. Such whopping success has earned me a ZRank of...

5...

...because there's more to having a successful store than having successful public products. Things like repeat sales, sales-to-product ratio, freshness of one's offerings, conforming to Z's recommended royalty rates (yeah, not going to do that), promoting (not going to do that either), probably oodles of things I've missed/forgotten at the moment.

The surprise for me isn't so much that I'm only at a 5; it's that I'm doing even so well as that.

Is actually succeeding here worth everything that goes into it? I think "your mileage may vary" applies. Sometimes there's more value in failing than succeeding (if you believe that you learn more from your failures than your successes. On that score, I'm a rich man.)

I have my reasons for not trying so hard to succeed here. (Keeping my hair, and my sanity, to name just two.) But for those who really want it, I wish you luck and hope you get it.


Well, I'm only at 4 and as long as I don't drop to 3 and my stuff is excluded from the marketplace I really don't care.

It is simple math, why I don't adhere to zazzles view on the subject.

How can something be viewed in the first place when most is invisible in the long tail and won't see the light of day even, when there are people out there who would just for the sake of escaping the popular choices enter page 25 in the address field of the browser.

Yes, you can tweak your tags but the more you tweak it the unlikelier you find real people who actually search those terms and your now product listed in the first 17 pages and even on the prime position of first three pages still won't have any views, since most people look up obvious search terms with an overcrowded search result with those extreme long invisible long tails. Catch22!

The hell of the invisible long tail wherever you look.
So you do your marketing outside, mostly competing with googles invisible long tail or sites which are designed for entertainment and are primarily a source for the competition to get inspirations like pinterest. Which is why I call any other sales than those who made the regular and get suggested frequently, flukes rather than the result of actual proper marketing efforts.

Saved by numbers - doomed due to numbers
The only viable option, if you don't have the required marketing budget and staff, to make a dent is to have a competing number of products. Which is why you have to have an unmanageable number of products for a one person freelance designer outfit. Having to spend your time calling up your own products is not helping the freelance designer to do useful things to earn a living.

Little poor one person freelance outfits
I try to do my best in producing great designs and to tag and describe them as comprehensive and SEO-friendly as possible considering that English is my second language given the time I have to work on zazzle and be content that my hourly rate is less than a shelf filler in the supermarket. I most certainly won't be as content with this fact if I'm forced to do stupid things like weekly calling my own products so my outside links do not result in 404-SORRIES and when I can make use of unforeseeable opportunities, I don't want to worry whether the item, I'm promoting, goes off-line while my link is still hot. Not to mention that cold links can go hot again after a period of utter sad neglect (changes in search algorithm shuffle links all the time) and it is simply nice, when those links are still alive at that time.



+1 well said
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 1:57:13 PM
vivendulies wrote:

... I don't drop to 3 and my stuff is excluded from the marketplace


Are you saying that if a store drops to 3, their products no longer show in the marketplace? Just looking for clarification as I hadn't heard this before.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 2:06:36 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years


I'm curious as to the relevance of the product type itself being one added in the last 2 years, and how would one know when the product type was added to Zazzle. Obviously I've seen things added in the year I've been here) Aren't T-shirts and postcards and the like mainstays that have been here since the early days? Would we be discouraged to create on those product types for any reason?


The extra 9 months for the younger products gives the product itself (rather than a designer's specific design) some time to catch on in the marketplace. I start designing a new product the hot second it gets announced in the News forum but even so it can be a month or two before the product as a whole really has a presence in the MP.

To find out if a product was added inside the 2 year margin, simply sort your back end products by Last Viewed and go to the last page. Products that are 13 months or older will be flagged in red (to show they only have two more months of visibility unless acted upon) unless they have either sold or were introduced less than 2 years ago.


T shirts and postcards (and invitations and pillows) are indeed mainstays. Is it worth designing on them? I think that it is so long as it isn't a design that is over represented in the MP. I sell lots of postcards- of which there are well over a million in the MP- simply because postcards divide up quite nicely into niches so that there is less competition for a specific design I have put on even if there is more competition for "postcard" with no search terms (I will never be on the first page of the landing page). I invested some time into learning how to make moroccan tile patterns in Illustrator but so did everybody else and their moroccan tile patterns got there first so I rarely sell those. But my microbiology designs do far better since it is an under-populated niche.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 2:12:45 PM
ZBug wrote:
vivendulies wrote:

... I don't drop to 3 and my stuff is excluded from the marketplace


Are you saying that if a store drops to 3, their products no longer show in the marketplace? Just looking for clarification as I hadn't heard this before.


In the Zrank info ZAZZLE wrote:
Why does my zRank matter?
As Zazzle's Designer community continues to grow, we are constantly looking for ways to improve our customers' experience and highlight the best stores suited to them. zRank gives us a way to showcase those stores that have put a lot of time and effort into creating a rich and engaging user experience.

There are also a few added benefits* for your store on Zazzle:
Your store will appear, and have preference, as a suggested search result when searching.
Your store will appear, and have preference, in the Designer Store search Filter - the links which appear in the left-hand navigation bar for narrowing results in marketplace search.

*Your store must have a zRank of 4 or above to have these features enabled


Click on the zrank link in your store view to see the full text.
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 3:55:11 PM
Susannah Keegan wrote:
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years


I'm curious as to the relevance of the product type itself being one added in the last 2 years, and how would one know when the product type was added to Zazzle. Obviously I've seen things added in the year I've been here) Aren't T-shirts and postcards and the like mainstays that have been here since the early days? Would we be discouraged to create on those product types for any reason?




To find out if a product was added inside the 2 year margin, simply sort your back end products by Last Viewed and go to the last page. Products that are 13 months or older will be flagged in red (to show they only have two more months of visibility unless acted upon) unless they have either sold or were introduced less than 2 years ago.





What I was referring to was how to know if a product type was added in the last 2 years. I'm not sure if I am misreading or misunderstanding, but I was interpreting that last qualifier for a "successful public product in the market place" (Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years) as the new product for us to design on. I do look at my older items and check them periodically, but if that does mean the product type and not the new item with our design I am unsure how to find out how long ago Zazzle added it to the list of merchandise for us to design on and what the relevance to that might be for making an item successful. I may be misinterpreting things.

P.S.
Thanks for the good advice. Smile
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 4:11:28 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Susannah Keegan wrote:
MelroseOriginals wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Based on our definition of successful public products in our marketplace, a public product will fulfill one or more of the following criteria:

• Has been sold at least once
• Has been published, edited or viewed within the last 15 months
• Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years


I'm curious as to the relevance of the product type itself being one added in the last 2 years, and how would one know when the product type was added to Zazzle. Obviously I've seen things added in the year I've been here) Aren't T-shirts and postcards and the like mainstays that have been here since the early days? Would we be discouraged to create on those product types for any reason?




To find out if a product was added inside the 2 year margin, simply sort your back end products by Last Viewed and go to the last page. Products that are 13 months or older will be flagged in red (to show they only have two more months of visibility unless acted upon) unless they have either sold or were introduced less than 2 years ago.





What I was referring to was how to know if a product type was added in the last 2 years. I'm not sure if I am misreading or misunderstanding, but I was interpreting that last qualifier for a "successful public product in the market place" (Is a product type which was added to the Zazzle site within the past 2 years) as the new product for us to design on. I do look at my older items and check them periodically, but if that does mean the product type and not the new item with our design I am unsure how to find out how long ago Zazzle added it to the list of merchandise for us to design on and what the relevance to that might be for making an item successful. I may be misinterpreting things.

P.S.
Thanks for the good advice. Smile



The three bullet points aren't what's needed for a product to be successful, but rather that a product must fulfill at least one of the three criteria to be a public (not hidden) product. I know they say "successful public product" in the first half of the sentence but then they strip away the "successful" and you are left with "public product".
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2019 4:18:51 PM
vivendulies wrote:
ZBug wrote:
vivendulies wrote:

... I don't drop to 3 and my stuff is excluded from the marketplace


Are you saying that if a store drops to 3, their products no longer show in the marketplace? Just looking for clarification as I hadn't heard this before.


In the Zrank info ZAZZLE wrote:
Why does my zRank matter?
As Zazzle's Designer community continues to grow, we are constantly looking for ways to improve our customers' experience and highlight the best stores suited to them. zRank gives us a way to showcase those stores that have put a lot of time and effort into creating a rich and engaging user experience.

There are also a few added benefits* for your store on Zazzle:
Your store will appear, and have preference, as a suggested search result when searching.
Your store will appear, and have preference, in the Designer Store search Filter - the links which appear in the left-hand navigation bar for narrowing results in marketplace search.

*Your store must have a zRank of 4 or above to have these features enabled


Click on the zrank link in your store view to see the full text.


Well, Holy Smoked Salmon.

Thanks for the info.
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