Question about designing on all phone models
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:22:00 AM
In light of the new information given in yesterday's chat regarding phone cases...

I would like to be able to put each design on only one phone model per brand, but, I have issues with design not filling the whole design area like in the example below. I used an iPhone XS model and switched it to the iPhone XS Max model. While it looks fine on the product page, when I go into customize to make sure there will be no print issues I find that the design doesn't go to the red line. And with some designs changing models causes the design to go barely outside of the green dotted line. I figure these guides are there for a reason so I have been adjusting accordingly and posting the design on every model.

My question here is, how important is it that the design goes all the way to the red line? I have noticed some models have much more space here than others. And on some products other than phone cases I notice white space on the edges when I don't let the design bleed all the way to the red line.



Then I have issues like in the example below where going from the iPhone XS to the Samsung Galaxy S8 the art fills the design area, but cuts the face off in what I think looks like more of a mistake than an intentional design choice that I feel may deter someone from buying it on that model, especially if they don't realize they can go in and readjust the design. And do customers really want to have to go in an fix the design? Or do they expect it to look good when they click on it. (I would expect it to look good and move on if it didn't)
So, again, I adjust the design and publish it on the model so that it looks good.



I don't want to waste my time and I would love the new system to work for me, but I also don't want to lose sales because a case just looks poorly designed or returned because of white space. I have a lot of faces I paint and so this applies to probably 75% of my phone cases.

Thank you to anyone with the patience to read this and chime in.
MalissaGrin
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:39:31 AM
I don't have many answers to your specific questions but I do love the artsy look of how you placed your art on this case and I have a suggestion for you if you want to restrict the buyer to a certain look.

This piece of art is wonderful because you can actually use the other side of the face and make a second unique case from it.

My suggestion is this. Crop the image to the size of the phone case in the design tool and then it will only show the crop in the preview thumbnail. I have done this with a few of my tie designs where I only use a small portion of the original image and it works even when they open the design tool just the cropped image is available. So you could crop on half of the face out and use it on a different case and they will be unique products.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

example of a tie I did this with... here

Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:42:21 AM
Also I am pretty sure it is important to go out to the bleed line so that no white spaces show around the edges on the print. I usually go a half click beyond it just for good measure.
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:52:11 AM
That is a good tip about cropping it. I actually didn't even know we could crop within the design tool until the new one came out and I never thought to use it in that way.

I have definitely used each side of the art like that more than I have used it as a whole.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm going to take a snoop into your product example on cropping.

eta:
There are so many things I wish I could go back and crop. That looks so much cleaner. I wonder if that would help me to be able to use the fill function more efficiently?
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 1:11:40 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
That is a good tip about cropping it. I actually didn't even know we could crop within the design tool until the new one came out and I never thought to use it in that way.

I have definitely used each side of the art like that more than I have used it as a whole.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm going to take a snoop into your product example on cropping.

eta:
There are so many things I wish I could go back and crop. That looks so much cleaner. I wonder if that would help me to be able to use the fill function more efficiently?


good question! let me know what you find out on that. I am always glad to help Smile
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 7:59:27 PM
I'm thinking this all may be a moot point with the way the search is functioning. Which is excellent for those designs that transfer well because all of the newest cases I designed are only on one model and found in other searches. It just seems random if the specific model case I designed shows up in the search or a different one even though the other is already available.

I guess it's a bit like design transfer where it doesn't really matter if the design is already on a pillow, the customer make pick the one out of the transfer choices and go with that so I shouldn't really stress over it too much. Yeah....that's what I will keep telling myself, anyway!Laughing


Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 8:37:25 PM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
I'm thinking this all may be a moot point with the way the search is functioning. Which is excellent for those designs that transfer well because all of the newest cases I designed are only on one model and found in other searches. It just seems random if the specific model case I designed shows up in the search or a different one even though the other is already available.

I guess it's a bit like design transfer where it doesn't really matter if the design is already on a pillow, the customer make pick the one out of the transfer choices and go with that so I shouldn't really stress over it too much. Yeah....that's what I will keep telling myself, anyway!Laughing




I used to get bugged that the buyer could transfer my design to a product I already designed but then I thought about it more and realized that if they do it right there while they are still on my product page and it keeps them from clicking off of my page where they might get sidetracked and not buy anything from me then it is a good thing.
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:08:25 PM
^Ditto to everything Shelli said Smile

My two cents... love your designs, I envy your talent!
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 9:16:46 PM
ArtAttic wrote:
^Ditto to everything Shelli said Smile

My two cents... love your designs, I envy your talent!


She does have some seriously cool art!
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2019 11:23:49 PM
About the bleed and its importance

Printer aren't 100% precise. The bleed is there to avoid white borders when the product is slightly misplaced while printing. Usually there is no need for huge bleeds, most of professional printing require as little as 0.125 or 0.25" bleed on each side, some require more. The bleeds on phone cases (and other products too) are HUGE, so in theory it shouldn't hurt if your design covers only half of such large bleed areas. If the print is misplaced that much, it will look bad anyway. Just check that the design goes well over the blue print line and doesn't just fit it.

The not correctly working FILL image property at size changes and how to mitigate the issue while designing

The Image FILL property should always fill the whole design area, even when the product size gets externally changed (eg from small to medium or large). That is not the case on all products. On some products it works well, on others it doesn't work at all. Requested to fix this issue a few times over the past years, but it still happens, even on the new designer.

There is a way to mitigate the problem while designing: you have to find out at which item size you have to use the FILL property on your design to get the rest of the sizes at least filled. The property still doesn't work correctly (if you use fill again in a different size, the image gets still resized), but at least, the entire printing and usually also bleed area is covered on all sizes. The product size to design on varies by product. On some product you have to design and use FILL on the small size (such as fleece blankets), on other products on medium, on others on large, whatever. On the case-mate cases I guess to remember it's the X model nowadays. So, when you design a product for the first time, first check out on what size you have to design, so the design gets properly resized on the other sizes.

Mugs: The mugs have a huge technical issue (already reported). If you design a mug and the customer changes mug size, every time the size changes, the design gets resized. If you change a few time from small to large mug and back, the design gets smaller and smaller.
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 6:37:30 AM
I have read some of your posts on the fill and I thought that I read what you said on the bleed before, but couldn’t find it again before I posted this. I often start with the fill, but since I am dealing with specific crops of faces a lot of times I end up making it much larger or pull the Image all the way to one side or the other. Any adjustment I make moving the art seems to affect the fill as well as it often times re-crops the image in the wrong spot most.y due to the nature of the different case shapes. I am going to try and use Shelli’s cropping tip and see if I can get fill to work a little better on at least some designs.

Thanks so much for helping explain the bleed a little better.
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 6:40:15 AM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
ArtAttic wrote:
^Ditto to everything Shelli said Smile

My two cents... love your designs, I envy your talent!


She does have some seriously cool art!


Thank you so much for the nice compliments ladies. You are making me blush Smile
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 8:19:08 AM
MelroseOriginals wrote:
I have read some of your posts on the fill and I thought that I read what you said on the bleed before, but couldn’t find it again before I posted this. I often start with the fill, but since I am dealing with specific crops of faces a lot of times I end up making it much larger or pull the Image all the way to one side or the other. Any adjustment I make moving the art seems to affect the fill as well as it often times re-crops the image in the wrong spot most.y due to the nature of the different case shapes. I am going to try and use Shelli’s cropping tip and see if I can get fill to work a little better on at least some designs.

Thanks so much for helping explain the bleed a little better.

You're welcome. Glad to help when I can.

The Fill is sometimes ugly enough, but what you're doing with placing and moving around a larger image is even worse, when it comes to customers' external size changes. I got plenty of lovely surprises trying this. Not every product works equally bad, some work pretty well, when the aspect ratio and shape don't differ much or at all.

never tried the internal image cropping, I use to create and upload already fitting designs. If that function crops the image to the actual item size and shape, the results on external size changes will be even worse, not having some reserve on the smaller design area/side. I experienced this issue when I first designed rectangular images at the correct item ratio. Switched then to square ones, unless I work on one-size-only designs/items. They work better and you don't risk blank spots within the print area.
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 8:37:41 AM
BTW. There is actually no solution to your face dilemma. You will never get that face placed the same amount on the left on all cases due to their different sizes and ratios.

There would be a technical solution: a relative align-left (and top, down, right) property to the print area + a defined bleed, that will always do its job when entering the designer, regardless of the size/shape of the design area. Unfortunately there is no such relative alignment option that bases on the design area borders, with exception of the centering, what is used with fill and fit (which don't fit nor fill correctly on size changes).

Your only option right now is designing and publishing each model separately or live with it.

BTW, this is also a problem designing interiors of greeting cards, because you have to edit the content for both inner pages separately and can't align the 2 designs left or right to the card edge. So, unless you limit the product to one size, eg. 5x7, there is no way to make an inner background work over both pages on all sizes.
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 1:08:52 PM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
MelroseOriginals wrote:
I have read some of your posts on the fill and I thought that I read what you said on the bleed before, but couldn’t find it again before I posted this. I often start with the fill, but since I am dealing with specific crops of faces a lot of times I end up making it much larger or pull the Image all the way to one side or the other. Any adjustment I make moving the art seems to affect the fill as well as it often times re-crops the image in the wrong spot most.y due to the nature of the different case shapes. I am going to try and use Shelli’s cropping tip and see if I can get fill to work a little better on at least some designs.

Thanks so much for helping explain the bleed a little better.

You're welcome. Glad to help when I can.

The Fill is sometimes ugly enough, but what you're doing with placing and moving around a larger image is even worse, when it comes to customers' external size changes. I got plenty of lovely surprises trying this. Not every product works equally bad, some work pretty well, when the aspect ratio and shape don't differ much or at all.

never tried the internal image cropping, I use to create and upload already fitting designs. If that function crops the image to the actual item size and shape, the results on external size changes will be even worse, not having some reserve on the smaller design area/side. I experienced this issue when I first designed rectangular images at the correct item ratio. Switched then to square ones, unless I work on one-size-only designs/items. They work better and you don't risk blank spots within the print area.


If you crop to the size of the design bleed line and then increase the size by a click or half a click so that your design is just over the bleed line you should be safe.

I am not talking about doing this so that the design will transfer well. We were talking about doing it so that the customer will not be confused if they go into the design tool to customize further and see that she only used half of the image. They might not realize that she meant to do that. If it is cropped they will never know the difference.

As far as design transfer goes I am sure the best bet is to go ahead and design for each product that you care about getting an exact design placement on. Either that or trust the shopper to be able to make the adjustments that are needed to make it look good to them.
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 4:42:06 PM
PetsDreamlands wrote:
BTW. There is actually no solution to your face dilemma. You will never get that face placed the same amount on the left on all cases due to their different sizes and ratios.

There would be a technical solution: a relative align-left (and top, down, right) property to the print area + a defined bleed, that will always do its job when entering the designer, regardless of the size/shape of the design area. Unfortunately there is no such relative alignment option that bases on the design area borders, with exception of the centering, what is used with fill and fit (which don't fit nor fill correctly on size changes).

Your only option right now is designing and publishing each model separately or live with it.

BTW, this is also a problem designing interiors of greeting cards, because you have to edit the content for both inner pages separately and can't align the 2 designs left or right to the card edge. So, unless you limit the product to one size, eg. 5x7, there is no way to make an inner background work over both pages on all sizes.


I figured the best option for the face dilemma was to keep designing on all of the models given that the customer probably doesn't want/or know to go in and "fix" my designs.
I was hoping to use the crop in relation to the fill function on my more abstract designs so I could maybe just do it for one phone. It was just my non techie brain thinking that way so it sounds like that might not help. That was just a side thought to Shelli's suggestion to restrict the design to a specific portion using the crop tool.

I really don't mind making the extra cases that much in order to put my best work out and I really think the arty face crops are fun and appealing to a certain customer base. I've sold a couple of them on the newest models along with some of my abstracts. It's just tedious and monotonous to do it. I do worry sometimes that it may look like I'm product spamming.
Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 5:32:09 AM
Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:

If you crop to the size of the design bleed line and then increase the size by a click or half a click so that your design is just over the bleed line you should be safe.

Yep, that's a good practice for getting the area filled.

Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
I am not talking about doing this so that the design will transfer well. We were talking about doing it so that the customer will not be confused if they go into the design tool to customize further and see that she only used half of the image. They might not realize that she meant to do that. If it is cropped they will never know the difference.

Valid point, even if I think you're thinking too far in regard to the customers. If they manage to get into the designer and to play around, I guess they will be clever enough to realize that the larger image is placed that way on purpose.

Shelli Fitzpatrick wrote:
As far as design transfer goes I am sure the best bet is to go ahead and design for each product that you care about getting an exact design placement on. Either that or trust the shopper to be able to make the adjustments that are needed to make it look good to them.

Absolutely, that's the way I go whenever I can. Spent the past months to get templates for all the products I wanna offer. Now I create one main work and adapt it to the various product-specific designs which I upload and just fill, without any fiddling within the designer (except for text content).

I've learned in all my years as webdesigner that it's never a wise decision to trust your customers. They usually have the gift to mess things up more than not, and you have then either to fix the mess, to get blamed by them or to see your carefully created design destroyed by silly customer content. Love it also when people take my images on the web, are that fair not to remove the copyright, but slap horrendous stuff on my pic and share it. Nothing excites creatives more than seeing their work disfigured...
Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 6:02:25 AM
MelroseOriginals wrote:

I figured the best option for the face dilemma was to keep designing on all of the models given that the customer probably doesn't want/or know to go in and "fix" my designs...

It definitely is on products that come in different shapes and aspect ratio and you have designs that can't be simply put on and cropped and placed at will, such as patterns. The one-size-fits-all practice doesn't always work. That's where you (at least people with an experienced eye) can differentiate true designers (focused on quality) from lazy ones (focused on quantity).

MelroseOriginals wrote:
I really don't mind making the extra cases that much in order to put my best work out and I really think the arty face crops are fun and appealing to a certain customer base. I've sold a couple of them on the newest models along with some of my abstracts. It's just tedious and monotonous to do it. I do worry sometimes that it may look like I'm product spamming.

As mentioned in my previous reply to Shelli, I spent a lot of time to create Photopaint templates for all products I'm interested on and I'll use different derivative designs from my main works for specific products, which I simply upload and fill within the designer. It's not a huge extra work in your image editing software after you've your templates ready, and the way better results are absolutely worth that extra effort.

I like how you placed the face, it makes the design interesting and way more beautiful than just having centered it. And here we drift into the dos and don'ts of photography - and art.

I hear you about the worries of product spamming. Had the same thoughts when I decided to offer designs with elaborated vector monograms and/or frames in different colors and style. After checking out the different ways to go and to avoid spamming my store with the same design offered a million times with every single alphabet letter and frame style, I'll do the customizing stuff on my website and link to the Zazzle product via API. My Zazzle store stays clean and on my website I've way more options and freedom to offer whatever I want.
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