Design Thief! 3 pages: [1] 2 3
StencilCrew
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:43:20 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
Design Thief in da house!

I operate the gallery at:
http://www.zazzle.com/stencilcrew

Recently this gallery has appeared:
http://www.zazzle.com/eyevoteobama/products
which copies my main product as a basis for ALL of theirs.

Already arranging...
- Lawyers
- DOS attacks
- Heavy weapons
- U.S. Marines

Question for everyone else is:

What do you do here when someone copies YOUR exact design on Zazzle and sets up a store ON ZAZZLE selling reproductions?

Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
VeryScaryCarnival
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:21:39 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2007
Posts: 591
I just have to ask...where did you get the original photo/image from?
Is that a picture of Obama that you rendered without using a photographer's work or did you take the photo of Obama then create a stencil-lized image from it? Or did you snag the likeness from a photo from the portfolio of an unknowning paparazzi?

Yours look better than the other guys, by the way...
StencilCrew
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:40:42 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
VeryScaryCarnival wrote:
I just have to ask...where did you get the original photo/image from?
Is that a picture of Obama that you rendered without using a photographer's work or did you take the photo of Obama then create a stencil-lized image from it? Or did you snag the likeness from a photo from the portfolio of an unknowning paparazzi?


The design used an original photo (as inspiration), with major changes/work to produce the finished artwork.

Copyright and Intellectual Property Law on that is separate issue, which I'm quite happy to discuss with any lawyer, in court, if necessary.

But the issue HERE is that the final rendered artwork has been duplicated by another Zazzle Member, then used as a basis for dozens of other products HERE on Zazzle.

Zazzle have a policy of deleting any products that infringe copyright using trademarks, logos etc.

But what about Zazzle stores making duplicates of other Zazzle members products and offering them for sale on Zazzle?


VeryScaryCarnival wrote:
Yours look better than the other guys, by the way...


Grin thanks

DynamicDesign
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:54:18 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/30/2008
Posts: 15
Where you got the image from is the most important question. Stock sites that provide royalty free images have certain restrictions on how you can use their images, vectors, flash, etc. We've seen plenty of stockphotos used in the designs here at Zazzle.

A lot of people think that because an image is posted online, it's okay to use, when in actuality you may be breaking copyright laws yourself. The photographer of the photo owns the copyright legally unless they were hired by a company, which then the photo belongs to the company. If you personally took the photo, then you have the rights. It's always best to do some research beforehand; don't just assume because it's online that it's fair game. Unless you are using the image in a negative way, most of the time, the owners will leave you alone. If they do disapprove, a cease and desist order/warning will be issued and you usually have a limited timeframe to remove images and stop use before any suit takes place. If you are the photographer and you would like them to stop, you must have some extensive proof (negatives, date of photo, original design files, etc.). Design concepts are hard to copyright. For example, where did you get the idea to do a stencil design...all on your own or did you see a sample/image done that way? You may want to file a complaint with Zazzle and see what their response is on the situation. All in all, Good luck!
CustomGameShirts
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:59:54 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 2/8/2008
Posts: 136
Location: SF Bay Area
Just report them to Zazzle. You can click on "Report Violation" on any product, or maybe just email their support.
StencilCrew
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:08:26 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
Thanks.

Reported already, last week and again today... waiting for a reply.

Again, my issue here isn't how original photos are used as the inspiration for a product design.

It is how Zazzle Members can COPY the work of other Zazzle Members and offer it for sale here in the marketplace.

If that is permitted we may all as well just make exact copies of WHATEVER appears to be a big seller here.

Is that 'fair game'?

If so... let's play!

Idea

VeryScaryCarnival
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:20:41 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2007
Posts: 591
I am wondering how it was resourced, since the design photos have that watermark and all.
StencilCrew
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 2:09:24 AM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
VeryScaryCarnival wrote:
I am wondering how it was resourced, since the design photos have that watermark and all.


When you preview any design and the larger flash view appears, it would be an easy task to screen-capture and stitch the larger images together.

Simple designs in 2 or 3 colors would be fairly easy to clean up the watermark.

It looks as though that is exactly what they've done with my design (you can see it in the low resolution of the copied version).

KRWDesigns
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 7:34:44 AM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 7/25/2006
Posts: 5,471
it's possible it's an honest mistake since political candidate photos are typically not copyrighted. The person using your image may have taken that notion too far.

Try contacting them and explaining the situation.
SweetRascal
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:05:41 AM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 8/27/2007
Posts: 2,430
To be honest I don't see a copy of your image. I see use of the same photo that you found and that someone else has done thier own changes and colorations of.
FishTsdotcom
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:51:29 AM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 2/27/2008
Posts: 2,362
Same here. With enough searching I found that same image on the net and could easily create similar items.
Just be glad yours look better, so hopefully youll get more sales. They are close, but thats competition.

If I was to complain everytime someone else made a shirt with a fish on it, id be in a ton of trouble. Unfortunately with thousands of people out there creating/making designs from images found around the net its a pointless venture to pursue.
Now if you had taken or created the original photo that both of yalls designs were created from, you would have a valid argument. Other wise, its a design and a design and a design.
GardenKicks
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:16:35 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 7/30/2008
Posts: 11
It's very possible that the contributor used the same famous photo and changed it like you did. A stencil face of Obama from the same photo will render like the image you did.

It's not easy to make claims against a famous face and a computer program that can render a stencil like image and call it theft.

They may have been inspired by your work and tried their own hand at it without directly using your art.


bhbphotos
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:43:28 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 10/1/2003
Posts: 612
Location: McMinnville
FishTsdotcom wrote:
Same here. With enough searching I found that same image on the net and could easily create similar items.
Just be glad yours look better, so hopefully youll get more sales. They are close, but thats competition.

If I was to complain everytime someone else made a shirt with a fish on it, id be in a ton of trouble. Unfortunately with thousands of people out there creating/making designs from images found around the net its a pointless venture to pursue.
Now if you had taken or created the original photo that both of yalls designs were created from, you would have a valid argument. Other wise, its a design and a design and a design.



http://www.behance.net/Strike17
found that using
http://tineye.com/
indyalice
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:11:22 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 19
Location: Indianapolis
SweetRascal wrote:
To be honest I don't see a copy of your image. I see use of the same photo that you found and that someone else has done thier own changes and colorations of.


Honestly, I agree, to me they don't really look that much alike. I do think it could be the same photo, but the effects, filters, etc. are quite different.

So, exactly alike, sorry don't think so!
urbanphotos
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 7:26:42 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 9/22/2007
Posts: 773
KRWDesigns wrote:
it's possible it's an honest mistake since political candidate photos are typically not copyrighted.


I was wondering about that recently. I downloaded a supposedly public domain Obama silhouette 2 or 3 months ago and tried to use it on CafePress, they wouldn't allow it and said copyright ownership belongs to, I forget his first name, something Katz; Obama's personal photographer.
StencilCrew
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:33:03 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
bhbphotos wrote:

found that using
http://tineye.com/


Nice resource Smile it would be nice for Zazzle admin to use it when reviewing design submissions.



I'd would REALLY Angry like to contact http://www.zazzle.com/eyevoteobama/
but there is no contact info on their gallery.




Pardon the repetition, but back to the issue....

Why are Zazzle Members
- allowed to COPY the products of other Zazzle Members
- and offer them for sale on Zazzle?

And still waiting for a response from Zazzle on this.


SweetRascal
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:29:53 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 8/27/2007
Posts: 2,430
ZAZZLE probably has nothing to say on the issue because it isn't a stolen image from you.
It is an photo you took from somewhere and stencilized with a photo program.
And the same photo someone else used and altered in different ways not a copy of yours.
The only way you have a complaint is if you personally took the photo that was used which you have already said you didn't.
Rainmountain
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:50:16 PM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 1/25/2006
Posts: 966
Location: www.nicoleb.org
I don't know how many times I've seen this picture on zazzle in the last few weeks (months?).
What makes you think that that person took your design?
*shakes head and goes off to take some more pictures of her own....*
StencilCrew
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 11:13:22 PM

Groups: Member

Joined: 3/8/2008
Posts: 16
SweetRascal wrote:
ZAZZLE probably has nothing to say on the issue because it isn't a stolen image from you.
It is an photo you took from somewhere and stencilized with a photo program.
And the same photo someone else used and altered in different ways not a copy of yours.
The only way you have a complaint is if you personally took the photo that was used which you have already said you didn't.


http://www.zazzle.com/obama_red_green_gold_shirt-235889968949878729?gl=StencilCrew

http://www.zazzle.com/barack_obama_vote_election_2008_shirt-235673013023283930?gl=EyeVoteObama

If that's OK, then let's play with yours...

http://www.zazzle.com/nurses_for_obama_shirt-235953035926811296?gl=SweetRascal

http://www.zazzle.com/nurses_for_obama_shirt-235586091913425155

Shocked

artberry
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 5:05:30 AM
 Zazzle Proseller
Groups: ProSeller

Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 2,666
Location: Cardiff
The key word in copyright protection though is "original" one can't really claim to own the exclusive copyright on elements of a design which use imagery either in the public domain or from clip art sources that are available for any one to use whether freely or for a small fee.

So in this case the only aspect you could claim copyright on is in the precise way the image has been used or adapted. But even there adjustments such as high contrast and some commonly available digital filters which are widely used, will usually tend to give very similar standard results particularly if the input image is virtually the same.

So whilst I certainly wouldn't condone ripping someone else's design off, and generally think it's pointless anyway if a market is already well catered for. In this case though given the widespread and public nature of images of political candidates and the fairly standard high contrast treatment the images have been given, which is a common photo silk-screen printing style and was also popular in Pop Art. I think the evidence that the other contributor has actually ripped-off your design is purely circumstantial. The circumstance being that both designs contain substantial elements that are not original to start with, but rather acquired from public sources.

Problem is of course the law generally works on evidence. If there is no evidence of wrong doing, or all the evidence is purely circumstantial, accusations are simply based on supposition, or suspicion as opposed to hard evidence, there is simply no case. Of course your suspicions might be correct, but since there's actually no way of proving that apart from a signed confession from the other contributor it's probably pointless pursuing it, apart from perhaps from a publicity angle.
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