 Groups: Member
Joined: 2/9/2010 Posts: 7
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Hi,
I thought it would be nice to have a function where I could put my products together into a pdf-catalogue which I could use for distribution. I think it is possible to automate this. It should be possible to create a PDF-Document with all products out of a store and additional information so people know how or where to order these products. The document then would be easy to get it printed by oneself or have it printed. I think this would spare a lot of time for people who try to distribute their stuff on non-electronical ways.
How do you think about that ?
greetings apfelsine
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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I suppose it could be useful, if one could make PDF documents of small selections of products which one could email to people or even print out. However with over 16,000 products in my store and 538 pages. With the color cartridges for my Epson printer costing over 40 UKP about $60 USD a set and a capacity to print about 15 pages in my experience. From my calculations it would cost me 1434.66 UKP or $2259.35 USD to print one PDF catalog. Something tells me I'm not going to be printing many of these catalogs  Even with much cheaper bulk printing it still wouldn't cost effective. Of course the other problem is if one wanted to print these catalogs the images would need to be 300 dpi in order to achieve high quality printing which means the PDF files would be quite large and very likely too big to distribute by email and it's probably not a good idea to distribute high resolution images of one's work in any case. OTOH if the images were 72 dpi they would be too small to print. So generally I don't think it would be particularly practical or cost effective means of publicizing one's store. I would think ordering some flyers or business cards from Zazzle would make more sense. In some ways, although there are still catalog stores and companies which sell via mail order catalog, one could argue printed catalogs are a relic of a pre-internet, pre-ecommerce age, when that was the only means available for companies to sell on a national or multi-national scale. They were only ever cost effective for very large mail order companies because of economies of scale. I think one could argue printed catalogs will eventually become completely obsolete. OTOH the Internet and Print on demand has made worldwide distribution networks accessible to any one. In many ways it seems a bit pointless to hark back to an obsolete technology which wasn't and isn't particularly cost effective for small businesses or individuals which the Internet is fast making an irrelevance. IMO one would be better off embracing the limitless possibilities which technology has given, than hark back to an obsolete highly limited technology which has no real future in a post Internet age.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 7/28/2008 Posts: 550
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agree with artberry - i think that paper catalogs are for older people like my mom who aren't internet savvy, she does most of her shopping by catalog. And the costs and paper waste are kind of horrifying too, they'll probably get eventually phased out. But a digital PDF type catalog is a good idea tho and could be useful.
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 Groups: Member
Joined: 2/9/2010 Posts: 7
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@artberry I do understand what you mean. But I know many people who still do not rely on internet even though they are young, so its nothing about hanging on relics. Although some people by our means may live in the past century I DO want to reach them. You sell best what is seen first. I won't send it by mail to the houses. I do want/need to give some smaller shops in towns around my influence a printed catalogue and for this it IS still useful. So thats how I would use it.
The idea of printing thousands of products is just not what I had in mind. It should be easy to select a bunch of categories with filters even IF your store is so big. But I doubt, that it really needs to be 300 dpi. For the start I'd even be happy for something smaller.
What the pdf is used for in the end is to the users decision. Just another possibility ?
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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I don't think Zazzle will develop anything like that for the shopkeepers so it'd be up to someone to do it for the masses and I don't see that happening either. Here's one possible work around, - Do a Google search for a print to PDF program. What it does is if you send a file to the printer it'll take that info and save it to a PDF file rather than send it to your printer. There are several out there, I use PrimoPDF.
- If you have your own domain create a page with the ZSB and make it look the way you would have your ad/catalog layed out.
- Go to the page in your web browser, use the print page function, select the PDF printer you downloaded as the printer to print to.(You may want to use the Kiosk view of your browser so the top and bottom bars don't show from your browser. Used Ctrl+P to print in IE)
If your browser doesn't have a kiosk function or you don't know how to do it you'll have to take a screen capture and edit out the browsers top//bottom bars then use the PDF printer. And Voilà ! You have your Flyer/Ad as a PDF to share.
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 Groups: Member
Joined: 2/9/2010 Posts: 7
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Well thanks. It was just an idea I wanted to share.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 2/27/2008 Posts: 2,495
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Old fashioned printed catalogs are great idea's, however like said, im sure zazzle isnt going to go to the expense and effort for something that such a small percentage of the population of users are actuall going to use. Now with that said, ive got my own paper catalog ive created, with binding, cover and all. What ive done is when creating my products for zazzle initially I keep another saved copy at hi-res but smaller overall size for making files and pages with. I take a similar afore mention program like fred is talking about, and open the entire folder of images and convert them to like a photo slide show, and then just print the entire collection of images on gloss paper, then take them and after creating a cover and all, let an office shop bind them and give it the finishing touches.
Mine stays in my work case and travels with me no matter where I go, theres always times comes up about a shirt im wearing or just frivelous chitchat that can turn into your chance to make a sale, and WHAM-o break out your paper catalog, since there is no immediate internet or wi-fi around or the person doesnt want to take the time to go look.
Ive ended up with several custom orders this way, enough in fact to cover the cost of creating the catalog and keeping it updated with no problems.
So, yes, paper catalogs are great, as long as you use them and present them right. But dont expect anyone else to create or offer them up for us in the meantime, just not enough interest in them now a days.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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apfelsine wrote:@artberry The idea of printing thousands of products is just not what I had in mind. It should be easy to select a bunch of categories with filters even IF your store is so big. But I doubt, that it really needs to be 300 dpi. For the start I'd even be happy for something smaller.
What the pdf is used for in the end is to the users decision. Just another possibility ? Well my store is quite small compared to some. There are stores with 150,000 products and 30k or 40k isn't that uncommon I've got lots of catching up to do.  With those kind of numbers it probably wouldn't be practical for Zazzle to provide PDF catalogs of entire stores. The server resources necessary to provide such huge PDF files would probably be prohibitive However if one is thinking in terms of a smaller catalogs with 20 or 30 products max that might be useful. As you say there are people who don't use the Internet much. That said they would still have to use the Internet to order anything and have a credit or debit card. So a paper catalog still wouldn't function as a traditional mail order catalog. So if people are living that far in the past, have no Internet access and an aversion to technology they are not going to be able to order anything from Zazzle and a paper catalog isn't going to change that. But I dare say there is some point in having some form of printed publicity material for one's store even if it's only a business card. Of course since it would only be practical to print small catalogs it wouldn't be that difficult to make some kind of small catalog by copying and pasting images from one's store laying it out in a DTP program e.g. CorelDraw and publishing it to PDF oneself
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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artberry wrote: That said they would still have to use the Internet to order anything and have a credit or debit card. So a paper catalog still wouldn't function as a traditional mail order catalog. So if people are living that far in the past, have no Internet access and an aversion to technology they are not going to be able to order anything from Zazzle and a paper catalog isn't going to change that.
I just find it hard to believe you'd alienate potential customers just because they are technically challenged. If you show them your catalog and they see something they like you wouldn't take it upon yourself to order it for them and have it shipped to their residence ? A sale is a sale. Just make it clear to them that you'd have to tack on added handling fees for your extra time. I'm sure if they're as afraid of the internet as you assume they'd have no problem paying a little extra. And most that don't have internet access at home most likely knows someone that does and would ask their help in ordering something. Then you have another possible customer in that person. You need to step outside that box you have yourself in, really.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/18/2009 Posts: 460
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Most libraries these days offer some form of internet access, which is always another avenue of accessiblity for those that don't have 'net access at their residence.
As far as the initial query, though, I would say it's a burden that wouldn't really provide a significant return on investment for Zazzle proper. Chalk it up to an operation expense (advertising) for any shopkeeper that decides to use the offline advertising method.
I can understand the advantages of emailing a PDF file (which also gives the recipient the option of only printing out the particular page(s) with things they are interested in). That alleviates a number of overhead cost areas.
Bottom line ~ I wouldn't think it would be in Zazzle's business interest to offer up something like that.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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FNolan wrote:artberry wrote: That said they would still have to use the Internet to order anything and have a credit or debit card. So a paper catalog still wouldn't function as a traditional mail order catalog. So if people are living that far in the past, have no Internet access and an aversion to technology they are not going to be able to order anything from Zazzle and a paper catalog isn't going to change that.
I just find it hard to believe you'd alienate potential customers just because they are technically challenged. If you show them your catalog and they see something they like you wouldn't take it upon yourself to order it for them and have it shipped to their residence ? A sale is a sale. Just make it clear to them that you'd have to tack on added handling fees for your extra time. I'm sure if they're as afraid of the internet as you assume they'd have no problem paying a little extra. And most that don't have internet access at home most likely knows someone that does and would ask their help in ordering something. Then you have another possible customer in that person. You need to step outside that box you have yourself in, really. Well you could do that for friends acquaintances I suppose. But bearing in mind one is only making a relatively small percentage royalty on the sale of products. Being realistic running a drop shipping mail order business for the technologically challenged is probably going to end up more of a charity enterprise than a business. One could argue it's always fun to sell stuff and it's commendable to try to help people, and if you want to do that that's fine. But it's probably not going to be that profitable, and requires a certain amount of work and time which could probably be more profitably spent creating more Zazzle products. That's not to say there aren't other ways to sell one's art, designs or photographs e.g. one could hang stuff for sale in local shops and art galleries or screen print a load of t-shirts and sell them on a market stall. But paper catalogues and drop shipping arrangements are probably not the most profitable way to sell one's Zazzle products.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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Who said anything about starting a drop-ship business ? Read what was said and not between the lines. I said if "A" which means "ONE" not a whole business. So someone that has internet service and buys a tee and you make say $3 off it is better then someone that you do a little extra for and say charge them an extra $2 so now you made $5 for an extra few mins work. And again read what was written, not what you want to see, I said order it and ship it to their address, in other words, order it from Zazzle and put THEIR address as the ship to. I really shouldn't have to spell it out. It was written rather simply, you have a habit of making more out of what was said. No you wouldn't want to do this all the time, I'm only talking about the occasional sale made this way, just incase you need clarification.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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FNolan wrote:Who said anything about starting a drop-ship business ? Read what was said and not between the lines. I said if "A" which means "ONE" not a whole business. So someone that has internet service and buys a tee and you make say $3 off it is better then someone that you do a little extra for and say charge them an extra $2 so now you made $5 for an extra few mins work. And again read what was written, not what you want to see, I said order it and ship it to their address, in other words, order it from Zazzle and put THEIR address as the ship to. I really shouldn't have to spell it out. It was written rather simply, you have a habit of making more out of what was said. No you wouldn't want to do this all the time, I'm only talking about the occasional sale made this way, just incase you need clarification. Well what you are spelling out there is a drop shipping arrangement and if one were going to go to the trouble of printing paper catalogs presumably one would intend to distribute them to more than one person. Besides if one were only doing this as a one off for a family member, friend or acquaintance, surly you could just invite them round for tea and biscuits and show them one's Zazzle shop on the computer.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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Unbelievable, unless I'm mistaken a drop shipment is when it's sent to you then you ship it to the customer. I specifically said put their address as the "Ship To" so it doesn't get sent to you, it goes to them. But then again I know I'm wasting my time because you'll read into this what you want it to be. Done wasting my time, you obvious know everything there is to know so yet again I'm wasting my time.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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FNolan wrote:Unbelievable, unless I'm mistaken a drop shipment is when it's sent to you then you ship it to the customer. I specifically said put their address as the "Ship To" so it doesn't get sent to you, it goes to them. But then again I know I'm wasting my time because you'll read into this what you want it to be. Done wasting my time, you obvious know everything there is to know so yet again I'm wasting my time. Well generally what I've always understood as "drop shipping" is where one has a supplier which will post directly to a 3rd party. In which case one could put an item up for sale on e.g. eBay without actually needing to have the item in one's possession. When the item sells and the buyer sends payment, you would then order the item from the supplier and have it shipped direct to the buyer. Basically it's a way of selling stuff without needing to purchase any stock. You simply act as an intermediary. Some specialist drop shipping companies will even supply items with individualized branding and documentation. This explains it in more detail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_shippingI'm sorry if I seem to know everything.  I'm sure I don't. Although I've always been quite good at remembering things I find vaguely interesting.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 7/25/2006 Posts: 5,471
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Fnolan - when you have something dropshipped to a customer for you - the product is never in your hands. Dropshipped means you are having the supplier send it directly to your customer for you
I was a proseller on eBay for 3 years with an account at 2 dropship companies. I advertised on eBay, collected the money, placed the orders and had the companies send the merchandise directly to the customer. That's what dropshippers do, as artberry said.
The whole point of a dropshipper is that you have no need to invest in and handle inventory.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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KRWDesigns wrote:Fnolan - when you have something dropshipped to a customer for you - the product is never in your hands. Dropshipped means you are having the supplier send it directly to your customer for you
I was a proseller on eBay for 3 years with an account at 2 dropship companies. I advertised on eBay, collected the money, placed the orders and had the companies send the merchandise directly to the customer. That's what dropshippers do, as artberry said.
The whole point of a dropshipper is that you have no need to invest in and handle inventory. If that's the case than I admit I was wrong. I was always under the impression that the item/s were dropped to you then you shipped them out, Drop Shipped. Fact remains I never said start a drop ship business, doing it for a few people a year is far from a business but someone with their negativity has to change what's said just so they can shoot down someones suggestions. All the original poster asked for was a way for creating a PDF catalog, not to be told how stupid their idea is because it'd be too much work for them. How do they know it'd be too much work for them ? Just because they may not be able to handle it doesn't mean someone else can't. And using Wikipedia is not the gospel, anyone can put info into them whether it has any merit or not, they are like most things posted on the internet, made-up information.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 9/25/2007 Posts: 2,724 Location: Cardiff
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FNolan wrote:All the original poster asked for was a way for creating a PDF catalog, not to be told how stupid their idea is because it'd be too much work for them. How do they know it'd be too much work for them ? Just because they may not be able to handle it doesn't mean someone else can't.
Where did I say it was a "stupid" idea? I just pointed out it would be a bit impractical with larger stores to provide a printable PDF file of all the items and expensive to print very large catalogs. That's not to say it wouldn't work on a smaller scale or wouldn't be a useful feature. It was then suggested paper catalogs might be useful for people who haven't got a computer and don't use the Internet. However I pointed out they would still need to access to the Internet and a credit card to order anything, to which you suggested a drop shipping arrangement. I agree a drop shipping arrangement would work. But since you were suggesting doing it for a small number of people e.g familly, friends or acquaintances that would tend to negate the need for paper catalogs and mass distribution, because in that instance one could invite them round for tea and show them products on one's computer. Or even on a hand held device such as a Smart phone. There's also the aspect although I believe Zazzle will drop ship. Since Zazzle isn't a wholesaler and prices are not particularly low. Whilst drop shipping may work in a small way to order things on behalf of family members, friends and acquaintances. I doubt it would be particularly worth one's while or profitable on a larger scale. Although there may be exceptions with Premium items such as framed prints. Of course I'm assuming people want to make money and see their Zazzle store as a business or part of a business. But I dare say some people may have a different approach and not be so concerned with profit motivations and simply see it as a way to share their work, which is fair enough. But I dare say if someone is looking into the possibility of distributing PDF files or printed catalogs as a means of mass marketing I think it's fairly safe to assume there's a profit motive in there somewhere  Sorry you thought I sounded a bit negative. But if one is looking at possible ways to make money I dare say one has to be realistic and examine whether an idea is practical or not.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 7/25/2006 Posts: 5,471
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for the record - I was commenting solely on what dropshipping actually is - I was not, and do not intend to, get involved in the rest of the conversation.
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 Groups: ProSeller
Joined: 5/12/2008 Posts: 3,423
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KRWDesigns wrote:for the record - I was commenting solely on what dropshipping actually is - I was not, and do not intend to, get involved in the rest of the conversation. I know you were and don't blame you for not getting anymore involved. I'm not wasting any more time on this either. I do apologize to the original poster for this post going way off track of what was originally being asked.
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