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Felidae52 wrote:Quote:PaintShop Pro is woefully inadequate for a serious artist who wants to do more than political slogans on tees. Smile I have used and owned Photoshop, I have also used and owned CorelDraw and several other graphic programmes, but I have worked for years in PSP which is my favourite - and I don´t do political slogans  .... PSP is totally sufficient for designing t-shirts, it works with photoshop plug-ins, I can vector draw, I can use filters and layers, I can use it with a tablet - and my "real" art I produce with brushes, paper, watercolors, pencils and oils anyway  And anyway - arguing about graphic programmmes is as pointless as arguing over politics or religion. Everybody has their own favourite - and there´s some amazing art on here, created with cheap programmes or even Gimp!  Hilly I didn't consider this an argument, I don't think anybody has an emotional investment here.  People express opinions, that's what forums are for. I, too, have used PSP, and I think that any serious artist who wants to master their craft would be well-served to strongly consider learning on the best. And that's all she wrote.
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I've got a Squidoo lens debating PSP vs Photoshop that has free promo ops for store owners. I have on that lens two of the Zazzle-Squidoo gizmos that show the latest 9 mousepads created by people here at Zazzle who have used both "paint shop pro" and "photoshop" as keywords. I also have two of the Flickr photos gizmos that shows the latest photos that have the keywords "paint shop pro" and "photoshop" as well. I have concluded after watching what both PSP and Photoshop users actually create is that it is the artist that matters, and not the program they use.
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Well said, annaleeblysse
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yesterdaysgirl wrote:I didn't consider this an argument, I don't think anybody has an emotional investment here. People express opinions, that's what forums are for. Didn´t you see the smilies ? And anyway, I was only expressing my opinion, too. Plus annaleeblyssee is right - it´s not the tools you use, it´s what you create with them. I just don´t like the implication that you are not a serious artist if you don´t use PS. Then again - all pros tend to get overpassionate about their favourite tools ( <<< note the smiley!) Hilly
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annaleeblysse wrote:I've got a Squidoo lens debating PSP vs Photoshop ... I have concluded after watching what both PSP and Photoshop users actually create is that it is the artist that matters, and not the program they use. It is indeed the artist, regardless of the software. PSP and Photoshop are not in the same category of software at all - comparing those two for ability or features is simply impossible. You can get offers for PSP for as little as $0 with rebates, discounts, and sale prices (must be a new version coming). When this subject comes up (often), my first thought is to get a person started on the right track - getting a piece of software that will do what they want to do at the best price, taking into consideration their end goal. Directly anyone to buy Photoshop if all they want to do is create simple art as a hobby, or part time, or just for here is just doing them a disservice based on price and learning curve. Once people become familiar with one program they are unlikely to switch without some reason. Many people begin with Photoshop in high school (wholly inappropriate - as a local business organization wants that stopped in my state) but once they get familiar with it they are likely to stay with it (and waste lots of time and money for no good reason). Those who 'began' with Paint Shop Pro because of it's availability and price -and- learn how to work with it like it - and it can create great art - even though, for the same price they could've bought the full CorelDRAW Suite and gotten a vector drawing program and a photo/raster program - as well as over 1000 fonts (which seems to be the source of many questions here - solved with the suite) and other programs that will help them with any level of art they choose to work into. Photoshop devotees tend to recommend Photoshop without taking into any consideration the desires, goals, or needs of the person asking the question. This is because many have no other familiarity with any other software. I have no problem recommending Photoshop - when it is the right tool for the person. Money and time.
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Felidae52 wrote:yesterdaysgirl wrote:I didn't consider this an argument, I don't think anybody has an emotional investment here. People express opinions, that's what forums are for. Didn´t you see the smilies ? And anyway, I was only expressing my opinion, too. Plus annaleeblyssee is right - it´s not the tools you use, it´s what you create with them. I just don´t like the implication that you are not a serious artist if you don´t use PS. Then again - all pros tend to get overpassionate about their favourite tools ( <<< note the smiley!) Hilly We both included smileys, Hilly, so game, set, match. ;)(note wink emoticon ) I get "overpassionate" about lots of things, but I am not certain Photoshop is one of them. A few examples: I don't like it when artists are exploited. I don't like it when designers are called for cattle calls to submit their logos to companies who have no intention of giving the "award", but, instead, stealing their hard work and copying it without paying for it. I don't like people who insist artists work on spec. I don't like licensing and publishing companies with armies of attorneys whose mere existence is to exploit artists. So there's lots of things I am passionate about, and one of those things is helping artists starting out, and telling them what I perceive to be the truth based on my own experience. Of course one should take the goals of the person asking the question into consideration, and you may not like the implication of what I said about Photoshop--but it wasn't a typo. Serious artists, yes, serious artists would do well to learn the program. That is my opinion. It will open up their vision to vistas, worlds, cosmos, horizons that they otherwise could not have ever enjoyed. It is money and time well spent, it is the biggest, baddest tool in a digital artist's arsenal. M
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Amen, Yesterdaysgirl! I am PASSIONATE about Photoshop. Been using it since 4.1!
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APJournal wrote:annaleeblysse wrote:I've got a Squidoo lens debating PSP vs Photoshop ... I have concluded after watching what both PSP and Photoshop users actually create is that it is the artist that matters, and not the program they use. It is indeed the artist, regardless of the software. PSP and Photoshop are not in the same category of software at all - comparing those two for ability or features is simply impossible. You can get offers for PSP for as little as $0 with rebates, discounts, and sale prices (must be a new version coming). When this subject comes up (often), my first thought is to get a person started on the right track - getting a piece of software that will do what they want to do at the best price, taking into consideration their end goal. Directly anyone to buy Photoshop if all they want to do is create simple art as a hobby, or part time, or just for here is just doing them a disservice based on price and learning curve. Once people become familiar with one program they are unlikely to switch without some reason. Many people begin with Photoshop in high school (wholly inappropriate - as a local business organization wants that stopped in my state) but once they get familiar with it they are likely to stay with it (and waste lots of time and money for no good reason). Those who 'began' with Paint Shop Pro because of it's availability and price -and- learn how to work with it like it - and it can create great art - even though, for the same price they could've bought the full CorelDRAW Suite and gotten a vector drawing program and a photo/raster program - as well as over 1000 fonts (which seems to be the source of many questions here - solved with the suite) and other programs that will help them with any level of art they choose to work into. Photoshop devotees tend to recommend Photoshop without taking into any consideration the desires, goals, or needs of the person asking the question. This is because many have no other familiarity with any other software. I have no problem recommending Photoshop - when it is the right tool for the person. Money and time. So for someone with no knowledge of any of these programs are you recommending CorelDRAW Suite? I'm mostly a photographer so am looking for something I can use with that as well as with original art. I'm new to this forum so appreciate any help towards getting off on the right foot with Zazzle. Thanks!
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Now were talkin people, all my designs are from Illustrator and Photoshop. 
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Razz if you are looking to get your "feet wet" with design programs without spending any expense, try the free ones, inkscape and Gimp. For a lot of people these programs can accomplish a lot.
If you'd like to be somewhere in the middle with some broad versatility, and a not very steep price go with the CoreDraw Suite.
I think Paint Shop Pro fits in here monetarily as well, and it has some more painterly like qualities.
If you are looking to meet the design professions standard use program, go with Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator. The cost for those programs are steep though and you may be able to accomplish what you want with some of the other more affordable choices.
Each one has its own pluses and minuses to it. Definately try out the free or trial period items before you purchase whenever given the chance so you can have the opportunity to see if it meets what you want to accomplish. In reality you won't know until you utilize the program yourself.
Good luck in your trying out things and happy zazzling
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I like Corel Painter. I'm more of a from scratch person when I'm not working with traditional media. If I need something more photoshop like, that painter can't do, I like to open GIMP for that. I like how painter lets me take my normal techniques and apply them to digital. For me its a paint program, and not leaning toward photo stuff. Allot of what is on photoshop I don't even use, tools like dodge and burn especially because it doesn't look natural on a painting. The free programs in the same style in case you guys wanted to know, are Artweaver, Artrage, and project dogwaffle. Artweaver is the better free version. With Dogwaffle and Artrage, your gonna want to install GIMP to convert that over to PNG. or a different file format. For some reason that I can't figure out, if you are using artweaver, you are going to need GIMP to make your background transparent again. I think its like that because the free versions don't have transparent support. The good news about them is the paid versions of artweaver, and artrage are very cheap. I think around 30 bucks, if I'm not mistaken.
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Great explanations of each, Robbirt...thanks! I will definitely check out inkscape and gimp. Have a trial copy of Paint Shop Pro but it's Greek to me and just takes so much time for me to sort through. Since I really want to get going on this stuff, I'll opt for the easy way, first.
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Morganna, I appreciate your input, too. Will check out Artweaver and Artrage, as well.
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I use Adobe Flash CS3... but I'm just weird! 
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I use several 3d graphics progs like Bryce and Lightwave then Paintshop for touching up if necessary.  This image mas made in Bryce,the ship model made with Lightwave. A virtual ship sailing a virtual sea!
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Your welcome razz lady.
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SugarVsSpice wrote:I use Adobe Flash CS3... but I'm just weird! That makes two of us. My question is when it comes to the online design tool of Zazzle, what is the advantage of uploading an .ai over a .jpg file? Does a vector file resize better using the online tool or do Zazzle treat them all the same.
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Debating between PSP and PS.......... I like things that are simple but that offer a lot of options. So, for me the free programs were out. They just don't offer the options that I like. I also have compulsion to be different so I have to be able to use my own things. For instance, I played with Gimp for a little bit and noticed I could not use my own patterns. Blah, that is a waste for me. When I first started graphics, I tried out both PSP and PS. I didn't like the layout of PS. It was not simple and I didn't like where things were located compared to PSP. This was way back when PSP 7 came out. PS had a few extra things that were okay but not worth the time of messing with how the program functioned. Besides, I found that I could do similar things in PSP using filters that I could either download or make myself. Later, when I decided to use vectors for my art, I tried AI and compared it to PSP. I didn't like how it functioned either. I like being able to use my scrolly wheel to zoom in and out and I like how the image area is in PSP. I also didn't like that PS and AI were not combined. If I wanted to add raster effects, I had to take the time to export and open a new program. I also noticed that the adobe programs sucked up memory really bad and at the time, my computer was basically obsolete. I could run PSP without any lag but PS and AI would shut down the computer.....which also made it a waste of my time. I never used newer version of PSP because they changed the layout to be similar to PS. I hate their layout. My PSP is set up a certain way and I like it that way. I don't care for unnecessary extra clicks for simple things like changing the color you want to use. There is enough clicking involved as it is. As you can see, I am very picky. I still use my old PSP 7 and haven't had any major problems with it. I will most likely never change unless I find something I like better. I don't think PSP is the best for raster images. I think that PS does color changes better and has more selection options. PSP works okay for them but it may also be the artist. ha ha. I don't seem to do well with raster images or I am just way too picky. I don't bother with color changing, clip art, or any of that....goes back to my compulsion to be different. I draw everything vector and create my own patterns and filters. Vectors definitely take up more memory than raster images, but I like the ability to change sizes without distortion. I believe there is more distortion in PSP than in PS, but I am not certain. Both programs seem to have good and bad qualities and it depends on what the artist is willing to deal with. PSP vectors are very difficult to transfer into a true vector program, that has been my only issue so far. Inkscape and CorelDraw deals with them better than any other program I have tried so far. Shading vectors in PSP is not nearly as simple as it seems to be for PS raster images. I tend to get a different look than what I am trying for or than what someone would get in PSP. It is a fine science for sure. There are downfalls to creating only vector images, there are some things that are extremely difficult to do or very time consuming. So, it all depends on what a person likes and doesn't like. I wouldn't use the free programs since they lack the options available in PSP and PS. When asked, I have suggested one or the other depending on a persons abilities. If you plan to use clipart and rasters, don't use PSP since you will get better quality with PS. If you plan to draw your own and want the ability to use rasters and vectors in one program on one file, try PSP and see what you think. CorelDraw has advantages also, but I never really got into using it as much as I wanted to. It seems to be one of those programs that you just forget you have. lolol. I don't know why, there is a lot of different things available so I am not sure why I forget about it. Quote:My question is when it comes to the online design tool of Zazzle, what is the advantage of uploading an .ai over a .jpg file?
Does a vector file resize better using the online tool or do Zazzle treat them all the same. I wouldn't use a .jpg file. They are grainy. For a decent quality image .png files should be used. As far as how Zazzle treats vector files vs. raster files, I would assume that all images are basically reduced down to a raster and then resized. That is only an assumption. I don't actually know for sure how they treat the two. If you are resizing in a program, the vector file will resize without distortion the .jpg will get fuzzy and you will lose your clean lines.
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